x_los: (Default)
x_los ([personal profile] x_los) wrote in [community profile] dankodes2021-06-10 02:01 pm

Shi Jing, The Book of Odes: Odes of the Temple and the Altar, Sacrificial Odes of Zhou, Qing Miao

   * I found the best option for the weekly reminder emails, via Gmail. The external service options are more involved than our purposes require. Does anyone know anything about how to arrange an Apps Script? Basically all it has to do is tell ten people, on Saturdays, to come and get their juice/poems.

Until someone knows what to do there, I'll send out manual messages weekly. If you'd like to receive these and are not getting them, please let me know.

* If you haven't read it yet, chapter one, on tetrasyllabic shi poetry, in 
How to Read Chinese Poetry is hugely useful for the Book of Odes, imo. 

* Remember you can also look at 
How to Read Chinese Poetry in Context.

* IF YOU HAVE FRIENDS WHO MIGHT LIKE TO JOIN or have other ideas, please let me know on 
this post.

* Every week I search the poems' English results to see if I can find any scholarship or neat bits and pop the results in Resources. Here is this week's collection.


**NEXT BATCH JUNE 14.** 

ONLY 4 SHI JING WEEKS LEFT, THIS INCLUDED!   

Re: 273. 時邁 - Shi Mai

[personal profile] ann712 2021-06-11 09:47 pm (UTC)(link)
All spiritual beings are welcome in the House of Zhou and they love his bed and breakfast!

Re: 274. 執競 - Zhi Jing

[personal profile] ann712 2021-06-11 09:55 pm (UTC)(link)
I see our political, social, economic history as a mark of how how much or how little we have progressed. These poems see it as the blue print for a happy today. Suggests little social change was happening.
douqi: (Default)

Re: 266. 清廟 - Qing Miao

[personal profile] douqi 2021-06-13 08:05 am (UTC)(link)
That's King Wen of Zhou it seems: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Wen_of_Zhou

The 駿 threw me a bit because I legit thought for a moment they had horses running about the temple, but it's being used here to indicate running/walking speedily.
douqi: (Default)

Re: 267. 維天之命 - Wei Tian Zhi Ming

[personal profile] douqi 2021-06-13 08:21 am (UTC)(link)
Second line is meant to be complimentary, according to Baike.

Looking at the word, 'singleness' seems to translate better as 'purity'.

According to Baike, this poem was composed by King Wen's grandson, King Cheng of Zhou, so. Btw King Wen was not actually King of Zhou at any point; his son King Wu was the one who did the conquering, and Wen was honoured posthumously as the founder of the Zhou Dynasty.
douqi: (Default)

Re: 269. 烈文 - Lie Wen

[personal profile] douqi 2021-06-13 08:29 am (UTC)(link)
Is it princess or princeS/vassals, because I'm not sure I can see a princess in the original.
douqi: (Default)

Re: 271. 昊天有成命 - Hao Tian You Cheng Ming

[personal profile] douqi 2021-06-13 08:32 am (UTC)(link)
Hazarding a guess from the formulation (天命) that it is indeed the mandate of heaven. The two sovereigns referred to in the second line may be King Cheng's two predecessors, King Wen and King Wu.
douqi: (Default)

Re: 274. 執競 - Zhi Jing

[personal profile] douqi 2021-06-13 08:37 am (UTC)(link)
Quick Google search suggests this is the instrument: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bianqing
superborb: (Default)

Re: 266. 清廟 - Qing Miao

[personal profile] superborb 2021-06-14 12:17 am (UTC)(link)
Baike says it's controversial when it was written, but it looks like all the suggestions post date the reign of Zhou Wen wang. The preface blurb says it was Zhou gong (son of Zhou Wen wang) who led the effort, to commemorate the completion of a city.

It also says it's controversial if it's actually a sacrifice to Wen wang, or if he's just symbolically an ancestor, but Baike comes down on the side of specifically for Wen wang.
superborb: (Default)

Re: 267. 維天之命 - Wei Tian Zhi Ming

[personal profile] superborb 2021-06-14 12:27 am (UTC)(link)
Baike glosses the deep as solemnly/dignified beauty and the unintermitting as without end, indicating natural law will continue without end

Agree with [personal profile] douqi that singleness is better as purity/virtue

Baike glosses the last line as more like, "may his posterity be forever diligent/sincere"
superborb: (Default)

Re: 268. 維清 - Wei Qing

[personal profile] superborb 2021-06-14 12:39 am (UTC)(link)
Baike says this is describing the change away from the 'fatalism' of the earlier Yin Shang dynasty, and how the authority to conduct sacrifices went from just the king to also the feudal princes, allowing the people to conduct sacrifices when they wanted.
superborb: (Default)

Re: 268. 維清 - Wei Qing

[personal profile] superborb 2021-06-14 12:45 am (UTC)(link)
I think maybe it's taking the pure connotation of clear?

Wen wang is the one who is honored as the founder of the dynasty, so the complete State was created by him -- so I read it as from beginning to end in this nice complete State?
superborb: (Default)

Re: 269. 烈文 - Lie Wen

[personal profile] superborb 2021-06-14 12:47 am (UTC)(link)
Agree, it should be referring to feudal princes/vassals
superborb: (Default)

Re: 269. 烈文 - Lie Wen

[personal profile] superborb 2021-06-14 12:50 am (UTC)(link)
Baike says this is written during Zhou Cheng wang's reign -- he is praising his feudal princes and also reminding them to obey and of how powerful the Zhou family is.
superborb: (Default)

Re: 270. 天作 - Tian Zuo

[personal profile] superborb 2021-06-14 12:59 am (UTC)(link)
Baike notes that this is one of the few poems in the Shijing that mentions a specific location, Qishan. (For MDZS nonsense, this is the same Qishan for the Wen clan.) Also, Baike notes that several individual words in this poem have multiple interpretations-- e.g. if 彼 in line 3 is interpreted as the common people, then they are the ones doing the building, vs if it's interpreted as the ancestor king. The other word is 康 in line four, which could be interpreted as stability and security or as inheritance.
superborb: (Default)

Re: 271. 昊天有成命 - Hao Tian You Cheng Ming

[personal profile] superborb 2021-06-14 01:04 am (UTC)(link)
Baike agrees with you on this.

Baike glosses the word that Legge translates to foundations as 'to plan'
superborb: (Default)

Re: 272. 我將 - Wo Jiang

[personal profile] superborb 2021-06-14 01:19 am (UTC)(link)
Baike starts off each of the prelude descriptors to these poems by describing them as poems for sacrifices/offerings. Baike adds for this one that it is supposed to be accompanied by song and dance, as it is part of a longer performance, the Da Wu. The music has been lost, but there are records of the dance -- the description is quite long, but shows Zhou Wu wang leading his troops, fighting, and then returning. This poem should be the first song of the Da Wu.
superborb: (Default)

Re: 273. 時邁 - Shi Mai

[personal profile] superborb 2021-06-14 01:27 am (UTC)(link)
Yeah, this is another song in the Da Wu, and describes Zhou Wu wang after he's destroyed the Shang dynasty (per Baike)
Edited 2021-06-14 01:27 (UTC)
superborb: (Default)

Re: 274. 執競 - Zhi Jing

[personal profile] superborb 2021-06-14 01:30 am (UTC)(link)
Baike's vernacular TL of the second line is "no one could compare to his martial arts"
superborb: (Default)

Re: 275. 思文 - Si Wen

[personal profile] superborb 2021-06-14 01:40 am (UTC)(link)
Baike spends a lot of time discussing if Zhou Gong did or did not write this poem-- and concludes that the original intention was that the person who first proposed that only meant that it reflected the thinking of Zhou Gong, not that he wrote it. (Zhou Gong helped the first three Zhou kings that we've seen a bunch in this series.)