x_los: (Default)
x_los ([personal profile] x_los) wrote in [community profile] dankodes2022-01-29 10:52 pm

The Works of Li Qingzhao, Ci Poems 3.9 - 3.16

This week we continue working with Li Qingzhao’s ci poetry. As usual, the book is freely available via De Gruyter's Library of Chinese Humanities in Mandarin and English and via several publication formats, including two open access options (the pdf appears to be better formatted than the ebook). We're reading the poems 3.9 through 3.16 inclusive.


Three of this week’s poems have endnotes, but these offer only small points of Chinese language exegesis. 

How to Read Chinese Poetry has three chapters on the ci forms Li Qingzhao uses here:

 

Chapter 12, Ci Poetry: Short Song Lyrics (Xiaoling) 

Chapter 13, Ci Poetry: Long Song Lyrics (Manci) 

Chapter 14, Ci Poetry: Long Song Lyrics on Objects (Yongwu Ci)


From next week, we’ll be looking at these as recommended reading.

If you’d like to be added to the reminder email list, let me know the address you wish to be contacted via. (You can also unsubscribe from the reminders at any time simply by replying ‘unsubscribe’.)

superborb: (Default)

Re: 3.9

[personal profile] superborb 2022-02-06 04:46 pm (UTC)(link)
The internet is NOT helpful about this bird. Baike [https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E8%BE%9F%E5%AF%92%E9%87%91/5871715] just says it's a bird that coughs gold
superborb: (Default)

Re: 3.9

[personal profile] superborb 2022-02-06 04:42 pm (UTC)(link)
Baike glosses 'distant' as intermittent.

I like the word used for dream-- dream of the immortal soul (the hun, the soul that can be detached from the body)

Baike wants the red candle to be hopeful / happy, which seems not quite right. (Its vernacular tl uses 'lonely' for what is tled as vacant here)
superborb: (Default)

Re: 3.10

[personal profile] superborb 2022-02-06 05:03 pm (UTC)(link)
Baike glosses it definitively as mountain peak. The clouds coming from distant mountains originates from Tao Yuanming (Jin poet).

But then its vernacular tl says "The clouds and mist curl around the distant mountain peak like nightfall is imminent"
superborb: (Default)

Re: 3.11

[personal profile] superborb 2022-02-06 05:34 pm (UTC)(link)
I guess there's actually several games it could be, but the top level Baike hit is to a game where you try to break another person's grass using your own.

Baike's gloss recounts the origins of the swing, from the Spring and Autumn Period's Duke Huan of Qi, popularized by Emperor Wu of the Han dynasty (bc it was a homonym for a thousand years).
superborb: (Default)

Re: 3.12

[personal profile] superborb 2022-02-06 06:05 pm (UTC)(link)
Baike doesn't gloss curtain hook, but looking up the term separately says that ancient people had curtains around their bed and they hung the curtains to the side with curtain hooks during the day.

Baike's vernacular tl simplifies it to merely the parting pain, but I think the original reads more ambiguously.

The vernacular tl for 'should remember me' is 'should pity me', which is very different to me? No gloss though.
superborb: (Default)

Re: 3.13

[personal profile] superborb 2022-02-06 06:32 pm (UTC)(link)
Baike glosses jade mat as a bamboo mat as smooth as jade. The vernacular tl editorializes here by adding that the jade mat reveals the coolness of autumn.

Magnolia boat is even in the dictionary as just 'poetic name for a boat'. Baike adds some context for this history and says some say that it is indicating a bed.

Baike glosses brocade letter as a poetic way to say letter and gives the origin story for this term.
douqi: (Default)

Re: 3.13

[personal profile] douqi 2022-02-07 07:57 am (UTC)(link)
Most commentaries seem to date this poem quite early in her career, when her husband had to travel away from home not long after their marriage. Not sure of the veracity of that, but it's the conventional read.

Possibly the mat is also cool because she is feeling Lonely(TM).

The final line 'As soon as it leaves the brow it surfaces in the heart' is said by many commentators to be a riff on 眉间心上 无计相回避 (very roughly: there's no escaping this emotion: whether twixt my brows or upon my heart), the final line from fellow Song poet Fan Zhongyan's ci poem set to the tune of 御街行 (Walking on Imperial Streets). Li Qingzhao's version is often held to be superior (though there are dudebros who Want To Be Different who hold to the contrary) because it captures the rippling ups-and-downs of emotions more effectively and evocatively than Fan Zhongyan's relatively 'plain spoken' line.

Re: 3.13

[personal profile] pengwern 2022-01-30 05:22 am (UTC)(link)
I was wondering at one point about how some chinese poetry are like aesthetic moodboards to me - not super clear on how things work in other languages, although the symbolists were mentioned, but the way the poet links a thing with something else and expects an aspect of the thing used as adjective to cling to what's being described, which makes for very strong visuals and which I enjoy greatly...also I know absolutely nothing about poetry in general so there's probably a 101 thing I'm missing XD so you get these super compact phrases that contain a bunch of imagery like clown cars. All the coolness of the jade mats (that you'd probably want in summer, the way people use bamboo woven mats too) in autumn
the magnolia boat as baidu says is a reference to a place with magnolias that was carved by legendary figures into a small vessel, or also the wooden bed/couch
兰舟 and 锦书 are pleasing terms...
the brocade letter was (as baidu says) the woven missive of an exiled official's wife.
The moon filling the western tower is <33333
superborb: (Default)

Re: 3.14 晚止昌樂館寄姊妹 In the evening at Changle Station, sent to my sisters

[personal profile] superborb 2022-02-06 06:49 pm (UTC)(link)
I find it interesting that there are so many characters glossed as a homonym character because I guess meanings have diverged? Makes more sense when it's like 萧 to 潇-- clearly at some point the water radical gets added to separate that meaning out. But 满 to 漫, how does that happen?

Re: 3.15

[personal profile] pengwern 2022-01-30 05:24 am (UTC)(link)
I've been trying to do those hairstyles and dear god, it's awful, and I suppose with her real gold pins they must be even heavier? all the horrible deportment lessons or w/e and it's just to make sure you don't trip over everything....
silk flowers good T__T
superborb: (Default)

Re: 3.15

[personal profile] superborb 2022-02-06 09:36 pm (UTC)(link)
Very annoying when the first line is a variant and so it's hard to find on Baike!

The standard first line is more like "Warm rain and clear wind"

Willow eyelids are glossed as: young willow leaves have the appearance of slender eyes, thus, willow eyes. (I'd really tl it to willow eyes instead.)

Plum tree cheeks are glossed as: plum blossom petals are like the cheeks of beautiful women, thus, plum flower cheeks. (Tree seems an odd tl choice.)

Mound-pillow is glossed as: sandalwood pillow. Because the shape is like 凹, it was called a mountain pillow
superborb: (Default)

Re: 3.16

[personal profile] superborb 2022-02-06 09:58 pm (UTC)(link)
Baike suggests this is projection of human loneliness onto the trees losing their leaves.

Baike says that the tea is a hangover cure. But also I think the tea of that era was still quite bitter?
superborb: (Default)

Re: 3.16

[personal profile] superborb 2022-02-06 09:55 pm (UTC)(link)
Baike glosses the camphor incense as ambergris.

Also, the tree seems to be the Chinese parasol tree, unsure where paulownia comes from? Baike has no gloss on that.
douqi: (Default)

Re: 3.16

[personal profile] douqi 2022-02-07 07:47 am (UTC)(link)
I think of 梧桐 (the parasol tree) as the sad tree in Chinese poetry basically. There's this poem, and then there's Li Yu's 寂寞梧桐深院锁清秋 (very roughly: held captive in the autumnal depths of the courtyard among the lonely parasol trees). Semantically, it almost has yew tree vibes (minus the rebirth part) for me.