dankodes | Shi Jing, The Book of Odes: Lessons from the States, Odes Of Tang

* I found the best option for the weekly reminder emails, via Gmail. The external service options are more involved than our purposes require. Does anyone know anything about how to arrange an Apps Script? Basically all it has to do is tell ten people, on Saturdays, to come and get their juice/poems.

Until someone knows what to do there, I'll send out manual messages weekly. If you'd like to receive these and are not getting them, please let me know.

* If you haven't read it yet, chapter one, on tetrasyllabic shi poetry, in How to Read Chinese Poetry is hugely useful for the Book of Odes, imo.

* IF YOU HAVE FRIENDS WHO MIGHT LIKE TO JOIN or have other ideas, please let me know on this post.

* Every week I search the poems' English results to see if I can find any scholarship or neat bits and pop the results in Resources. Here is this week's collection.

* In case you missed it and are interested, some people on the com did a Scum Villain read-along here. Anyone with thoughts is welcome to chime in.

* PROGRESS REPORT: With this, we're through the first ten books of the Shi Jing. There will be four more weeks in Lessons from the States, because I'm combining the very short books Gui and Cao. Then we have about seven weeks in Minor Odes of the Kingdom, because the short Baihua will go in with the book before it. Then come three weeks in Greater Odes, then four in Odes of the Temple and the Altar. Then we're entirely done with Shi Jing, and can do Tang or Song or something.

**NEXT BATCH FEB 22.**

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

采苓采苓、首陽之巔。
人之為言、苟亦無信。
舍旃舍旃、苟亦無然。
人之為言、胡得焉。

Would you gather the liquorice, would you gather the liquorice,
On the top of Shouyang?
When men tell their stories,
Do not readily believe them;
Put them aside, put them aside.
Do not readily assent to them;
And, when men tell their stories,
How will they find course?

采苦采苦、首陽之下。
人之為言、苟亦無與。
舍旃舍旃、苟亦無然。
人之為言、胡得焉。

Would you gather the sowthistle, would you gather the sowthistle,
At the foot of Shouyang?
When men tell their stories,
Do not readily approve them;
Put them aside, put them aside.
Do not readily assent to them;
And, when men tell their stories,
How will they find course?

采葑采葑、首陽之東。
人之為言、苟亦無從。
舍旃舍旃、苟亦無然。
人之為言、胡得焉。

Would you gather the mustard plant, would you gather the mustard plant,
On the east of Shouyang?
When men tell their stories,
Do not readily listen to them; -
Put them aside, put them aside.
Do not readily assent to them;
And, when men tell their stories,
How will they find course?

I'm guessing these are NOT places these plants should/could be gathered, and you should no sooner believe bullshit than do so.

'And, when men tell their stories,
How will they find course?' I don't get this part?

I read that as if people give you wrong information how will you find the true course to what you desire.

The plants are all culinary/ medicinal. Maybe a symbol of domestic happiness?

If “ men tell you stories” . Maybe don’t trust a man who tells you he loves you as he may be doing it to get in your pants ( he’s lying because he tells you the wrong location for these culinary foods - proof he has no intention to marry you ) and if you give in to him, you will never get married ( find your proper course)

A Chinese ‘Do not trust him, gentle maiden.’ Sergeant Troy from Far from the Madding crowd?

And maybe a warning to men too - if you play around too much you’ll not find the domestic bliss you should be seeking and really desire because you’re looking in the wrong places.

Edited 2021-02-19 10:55 (UTC)

Baike: this poem is persuading people not to listen to slander.

Each stanza is structured as: first two sentences are bixing, middle four implore you to not listen to slander, last two tell you if you don't listen to slander, it won't succeed.

The three plants are necessities of life in this era. (Baike does not elaborate more) It's odd to me that the first two plants are described as bitter? The first is described as extremely bitter medicinal herbs, or potentially lotus or licorice. The second is bitter vegetable. The last one is a turnip.

OH that end-turn about 'slander will die if you fucking ignore it' wasn't obvious to me, and makes sense/broadens the poem out.

Also the “ would you” suggests that the women know better than than to pick the herbs in those places so why do they readily believe men’s stories?

My comments may be stating the bleeding’ obvious so if they’re not what you’re looking for, please let me know.

These poems read like those Victorian marriage manuals to young women seeking a husband.

Edited 2021-02-19 11:40 (UTC)

I don't think it's possible to be too obvious, really, in trying to work out what these might mean, bc we don't have a TON to work with re figuring out the basic content of material this old

Shi Jing, The Book of Odes: Lessons from the States, Odes Of Tang

125. 采苓 - Cai Ling

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Re: 125. 采苓 - Cai Ling

Re: 125. 采苓 - Cai Ling

Re: 125. 采苓 - Cai Ling

Re: 125. 采苓 - Cai Ling

Re: 125. 采苓 - Cai Ling