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x_los ([personal profile] x_los) wrote in [community profile] dankodes2021-04-12 02:38 am

Shi Jing, The Book of Odes: Minor Odes of the Kingdom, Decade of Qi Fu

* I found the best option for the weekly reminder emails, via Gmail. The external service options are more involved than our purposes require. Does anyone know anything about how to arrange an Apps Script? Basically all it has to do is tell ten people, on Saturdays, to come and get their juice/poems.

Until someone knows what to do there, I'll send out manual messages weekly. If you'd like to receive these and are not getting them, please let me know.

* If you haven't read it yet, chapter one, on tetrasyllabic shi poetry, in 
How to Read Chinese Poetry is hugely useful for the Book of Odes, imo.

* IF YOU HAVE FRIENDS WHO MIGHT LIKE TO JOIN or have other ideas, please let me know on 
this post.

* Every week I search the poems' English results to see if I can find any scholarship or neat bits and pop the results in Resources. Here is this week's 
collection.

* One of our members is doing posts on the foundations and development of wuxia. Worth checking out!

**NEXT BATCH APRIL 19.**

Re: 185. 祈父 - Qi Fu

[personal profile] ann712 - 2021-04-12 22:42 (UTC) - Expand
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Re: 185. 祈父 - Qi Fu

[personal profile] superborb 2021-04-18 01:52 am (UTC)(link)
Baike tidbits:
"claws and teeth of the king": This term is now derogatory [dictionary says pawn, lackey]
"So that our mothers have to do all the labour of cooking?" baike's vernacular says "Our mothers at home have no food to eat"
"rolled" is an interesting choice! The word means "to revolve, to turn, to circle about".

The context for the poem is satire on Zhou Xuan wang (again). Normally the capital guards don't get sent to the front line, but in this case they were, so they are unhappy.

An alternate interpretation for the last line is that the mother has died while the soldier was away, so the food is an offering.

Re: 186. 白駒 - Bai Ju

[personal profile] ann712 - 2021-04-12 22:45 (UTC) - Expand

Re: 186. 白駒 - Bai Ju

[personal profile] superborb - 2021-04-18 19:47 (UTC) - Expand
forestofglory: E. H. Shepard drawing of Christopher Robin reading a book to Pooh (Default)

Re: 187. 黃鳥 - Huang Niao

[personal profile] forestofglory 2021-04-12 06:22 pm (UTC)(link)
What is being translated as "Maize"? It can't possible be Zea mays! Seem like an odd translation choice.
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Re: 187. 黃鳥 - Huang Niao

[personal profile] superborb 2021-04-18 11:19 pm (UTC)(link)
Baike: Refugees (exiles?) yearning to return home. The society was in disarray in the final years of Zhou Xuan wang. The yellow bird (Eurasian siskin) is a metaphor for the exploiting class who don't work but eat.

vvv weird for Legge to translate sorghum to maize?? Baike gives the additional gloss of "a kind of millet/grain. One source says refined rice"
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Re: 188. 我行其野 - Wo Xing Qi Ye

[personal profile] superborb 2021-04-19 12:00 am (UTC)(link)
Baike:

"Fetid tree": Ailanthus altissima / tree of heaven [a very stinky tree]. An untalented tree, a metaphor for trusting the wrong person
"Sheep's foot": A perennial herbaceous plant, known as sheep's hoof vegetable, similar to radish, kind of slippery in texture, eating too much gives you diarrhea
"Pokeweed": A perennial climbing plant, has flowers, white roots, can be steamed and eaten, so in a year of famine used as food.

The "men superior to woman" tradition in ancient China creates this prominent motif of abandoned women literature. Baike discusses some of the historical interpretations that are all about politics...

Re: 189. 斯干 - Si Gan

[personal profile] ann712 - 2021-04-12 22:51 (UTC) - Expand

Re: 189. 斯干 - Si Gan

[personal profile] superborb - 2021-04-19 00:18 (UTC) - Expand
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Re: 189. 斯干 - Si Gan

[personal profile] superborb 2021-04-19 12:37 am (UTC)(link)
Baike:

The reason the sons sleep on the bed and daughters on the ground is "yang high, yin low". (Patriarchy >:( ). Baike specifically says: "Men are superior to women, and their treatment and the expectations on them are different. This is a reflection on the customs and consciouness of the time, and lets future generations understand those values."

I am-- surprised at the first line of the Baike background: 这是一首祝贺西周奴隶主贵族宫室落成的歌辞。This is a song to celebrate completion of the palaces of the Western Zhou slave owning nobility.

Anyway, the specific King of Zhou that it's about seems uncertain. There's also some debate over if celebrating the completion of the palace also comes with sacrificing animals to the ancestors.

Re: 190. 無羊 - Wu Yang

[personal profile] ann712 - 2021-04-12 22:53 (UTC) - Expand
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Re: 190. 無羊 - Wu Yang

[personal profile] superborb 2021-04-19 12:57 am (UTC)(link)
Baike: In the first stanza, the person herding the sheep is a slave and thus does not own the large number of cattle/sheep he is herding [Baike calls the herdsman a slave, I'm not sure where that comes from?]

"victims": sacrificial animals
"abundant provision": prepare [tools]. I am really not sure where Legge gets that line from lol

"With their large faggots, and smaller branches,": 'with' is 'take', 'large faggots' is 'coarse firewood', 'smaller branches' is 'thin firewood'

"And with their prey of birds and beasts.": this is literally 'male and female', which baike glosses with "flying is called male/female", meaning hunting birds

"Vigorous and strong,": very carefully and prudent in appearance, indicating the sheep are afraid of separating from their flock

"Of multitudes": locusts. Ancient people believed locusts turned to fish. During droughts they'd become locusts and in favorable weather, fishes

The tortoise-and-serpent flags are for the outskirts with few people; the falcon flags for provinces with many people

Re: 191. 節南山 - Jie Nan Shan

[personal profile] ann712 - 2021-04-12 22:56 (UTC) - Expand
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Re: 191. 節南山 - Jie Nan Shan

[personal profile] superborb 2021-04-19 01:14 am (UTC)(link)
Baike has Zhou You wang (the last king of Western Zhou) as the king in question in its summary. It says in the background that some sources claim it was Zhou Huan wang or Zhou Ping wang, but given the historical context, Zhou You wang makes the most sense.

There was controversy over if it was to satirize the king or Yin, but Baike's final word is that it is a pointless debate lol. It is exposing the corruption and evil of BOTH.

Re: 192. 正月 - Zheng Yue

[personal profile] superborb - 2021-04-19 01:47 (UTC) - Expand