Shi Jing, The Book of Odes: Lessons from the States, Odes Of Yong

[x_los]

First off, THANK YOU for your email and poem responses this week! Please do check out each others' thoughts in the comments. There's some fun stuff to build off of, and it's less intimidating to offer up some thoughts if we're having a conversation. I'm looking forward to getting into these this evening. 

Some notes:

* Two members asked for weekly email reminders on Saturday, so I've figured out how to set that up. If you did NOT get an email yesterday, I haven't got you on the list. If you'd like to be on the list, please let me know!

If you would like *not* to be on the list, let's see whether the first Automated Email on Saturday has an unsubscribe option? If it doesn't, please just respond 'unsubscribe' or something and I'll take you off the reminder.

* One member asked that we do a classic Tang collection right after this one, for something a bit more modern and approachable (she phrased it as the difference between Chaucer and Shakespeare). Unless there are objections, I'm very happy to jump forward in time--we can always circle back to danker parts later if/when we feel like it, and Tang is regarded as some very good shit.

* If you have further ideas, please let me know on this post. 

* IF YOU HAVE FRIENDS WHO MIGHT LIKE TO JOIN, please also let me know on this post. I think we're getting to a more stable point, where a handful of additional commenters would be welcome?

* If you haven't read it yet, chapter one, on tetrasyllabic shi poetry, in How to Read Chinese Poetry is hugely useful for the Book of Odes, imo.



Thank you!

Comments

46. 牆有茨 - Qiang You Ci

[x_los]

牆有茨、不可埽也。
中冓之言、不可道也。
所可道也、言之醜也。

The tribulus grows on the wall,
And cannot be brushed away.
The story of the inner chamber,
Cannot be told.
What would have to be told,
Would be the vilest of recitals.

牆有茨、不可襄也。
中冓之言、不可詳也。
所可詳也、言之長也。

The tribulus grow on the wall,
And cannot be removed.
The story of the inner chamber,
Cannot be particularly related.
What might be particularly related
Would be a long story.

牆有茨、不可束也。
中冓之言、不可讀也。
所可讀也、言之辱也。

The tribulus grow on the wall,
And cannot be bound together, [and taken away].
The story of the inner chamber
Cannot be recited,
What might be recited,
Would be the most disgraceful of things.

Re: 46. 牆有茨 - Qiang You Ci

[x_los]

Tribulus: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribulus

So the 'inner chamber' is often a euphemism for the cloistered world of women, assumed to be a safe domestic space. Is this poem about the public unspeakability of the realities of women's lives, or conflicts between women, or men's abuses of women within their nominal care? There's something enduringly potent in it.

Re: 46. 牆有茨 - Qiang You Ci

[kitsunec4]

My reading is of the private/public separation, the cloistered inner household of women is a very potent bit of imagery. But I think one could also read it to a more cultural, observation on face versus at home behavior.

Re: 46. 牆有茨 - Qiang You Ci

[between4walls]

This one definitely intrigues me. In addition to being part of Traditional Chinese Medicine, the tribulus family includes the weed known as puncture weed or devil's weed, which is so called because its burrs can penetrate surfaces like skin. So the tribulus is probably a metaphor for the corruption of the inner chamber, being a weed that sticks to you.

Re: 46. 牆有茨 - Qiang You Ci

[superborb]

Baidu says this is aimed at a specific emperor who committed adultery with his father's wife in order to consolidate power and maintain the relationship between the states (? not sure about the last part). This is apparently a taboo so people were upset.