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Entry tags:
Shi Jing, The Book of Odes: Lessons from the States, Odes Of Tang
* I found the best option for the weekly reminder emails, via Gmail. The external service options are more involved than our purposes require. Does anyone know anything about how to arrange an Apps Script? Basically all it has to do is tell ten people, on Saturdays, to come and get their juice/poems.
Until someone knows what to do there, I'll send out manual messages weekly. If you'd like to receive these and are not getting them, please let me know.
* If you haven't read it yet, chapter one, on tetrasyllabic shi poetry, in How to Read Chinese Poetry is hugely useful for the Book of Odes, imo.
* IF YOU HAVE FRIENDS WHO MIGHT LIKE TO JOIN or have other ideas, please let me know on this post.
* Every week I search the poems' English results to see if I can find any scholarship or neat bits and pop the results in Resources. Here is this week's collection.
* In case you missed it and are interested, some people on the com did a Scum Villain read-along here. Anyone with thoughts is welcome to chime in.
* PROGRESS REPORT: With this, we're through the first ten books of the Shi Jing. There will be four more weeks in Lessons from the States, because I'm combining the very short books Gui and Cao. Then we have about seven weeks in Minor Odes of the Kingdom, because the short Baihua will go in with the book before it. Then come three weeks in Greater Odes, then four in Odes of the Temple and the Altar. Then we're entirely done with Shi Jing, and can do Tang or Song or something.
**NEXT BATCH FEB 22.**
Until someone knows what to do there, I'll send out manual messages weekly. If you'd like to receive these and are not getting them, please let me know.
* If you haven't read it yet, chapter one, on tetrasyllabic shi poetry, in How to Read Chinese Poetry is hugely useful for the Book of Odes, imo.
* IF YOU HAVE FRIENDS WHO MIGHT LIKE TO JOIN or have other ideas, please let me know on this post.
* Every week I search the poems' English results to see if I can find any scholarship or neat bits and pop the results in Resources. Here is this week's collection.
* In case you missed it and are interested, some people on the com did a Scum Villain read-along here. Anyone with thoughts is welcome to chime in.
* PROGRESS REPORT: With this, we're through the first ten books of the Shi Jing. There will be four more weeks in Lessons from the States, because I'm combining the very short books Gui and Cao. Then we have about seven weeks in Minor Odes of the Kingdom, because the short Baihua will go in with the book before it. Then come three weeks in Greater Odes, then four in Odes of the Temple and the Altar. Then we're entirely done with Shi Jing, and can do Tang or Song or something.
**NEXT BATCH FEB 22.**
114. 蟋蟀 - Xi Shuai
今我不樂、日月其除。
無已大康、職思其居。
好樂無荒、良士瞿瞿。
The cricket is in the hall,
And the year is drawing to a close.
If we do not enjoy ourselves now,
The days and months will be leaving us.
But let us not go to great excess;
Let us first think of the duties of our position;
Let us not be wild in our love of enjoyment.
The good man is anxiously thoughtful.
蟋蟀在堂、歲聿其逝。
今我不樂、日月其邁。
無已大康、職思其外。
好樂無荒、良士蹶蹶。
The cricket is in the hall,
And the year is passing away.
If we do not enjoy ourselves now,
The days and months will have gone.
But let us not go to great excess;
Let us first send our thoughts beyond the present;
Let us not be wild in our love of enjoyment.
The good man is ever diligent.
蟋蟀在堂、役車其休。
今我不樂、日月其慆。
無已大康、職思其憂。
好樂無荒、良士休休。
The cricket is in the hall,
And our carts stand unemployed.
If we do not enjoy ourselves now,
The days and months will have gone by.
But let us not go to an excess;
Let us first think of the griefs that may arise;
Let us not be wild in our love of enjoyment.
The good man is quiet and serene.
Re: 114. 蟋蟀 - Xi Shuai
Re: 114. 蟋蟀 - Xi Shuai
(Anonymous) - 2021-02-17 10:39 (UTC) - ExpandRe: 114. 蟋蟀 - Xi Shuai
The importance of the cricket is that it's an indication of seasons changing
115. 山有樞 - Shan You Shu
子有衣裳、弗曳弗婁。
子有車馬、弗馳弗驅。
宛其死矣、他人是愉。
On the mountains are the thorny elms,
In the low, wet grounds are the white elms.
You have suits of robes,
But you will not wear them;
You have carriages and horses,
But you will not drive them.
You will drop off in death,
And another person will enjoy them.
山有栲、隰有杻。
子有廷內、弗洒弗埽。
子有鐘鼓、弗鼓弗考。
宛其死矣、他人是保。
On the mountains is the Kao,
In the low wet grounds is the Niu.
You have courtyards and inner rooms,
But you will not have them sprinkled or swept;
You have drums and bells,
But you will not have them beat or struck,
You will drop off in death,
And another person will possess them.
山有漆、隰有栗。
子有酒食、何不日鼓瑟。
且以喜樂、且以永日。
宛其死矣、他人入室。
On the mountains are the varnish trees,
In the low wet grounds are the chestnuts.
You have spirits and viands; -
Why not daily play your lute?
Both to give a zest to your joy,
And to prolong the day?
You will drop off in death,
And another person will enter your chamber.
Re: 115. 山有樞 - Shan You Shu
How's the xing working here?
Re: 115. 山有樞 - Shan You Shu
Re: 115. 山有樞 - Shan You Shu
Me: when can we use it then?
My mum: ——-
Re: 115. 山有樞 - Shan You Shu
Re: 115. 山有樞 - Shan You Shu
And going off of this: "on the mountains there is X, for example, was usually employed in songs about separation. [...] Parallelism, especially in stock phrases such as "on the mountains there is X, / in the lowlands there is Y," is common
Then the first two lines, contrasting the mountains and the low, wet grounds, are also working to emphasize the upcoming separation?
A very carpe diem/"you can't take it with you" poem.
Re: 115. 山有樞 - Shan You Shu
116. 揚之水 - Yang Zhi Shui
素衣朱襮、從子于沃。
既見君子、云何不樂。
Amidst the fretted waters,
The white rocks stand up grandly.
Bringing a robe of white silk, with a vermillion collar,
We will follow you to Wo.
When we have seen the princely lord,
Shall we not rejoice?
揚之水、白石皓皓。
素衣朱繡、從子于鵠。
既見君子、云何其憂。
Amidst the fretted waters,
The white rocks stand glistening.
Bringing a robe of white silk, with a vermillion collar, and embroidered,
We will follow you to Hu.
When we have seen the princely lord,
What sorrow will remain to us?
揚之水、白石粼粼。
我聞有命、不敢以告人。
Amidst the fretted waters,
The white rocks clearly show.
We have heard your orders,
And will not dare to inform any one of them.
Re: 116. 揚之水 - Yang Zhi Shui
Also, let's do a conspiracy? (Or maybe just 'we're gonna be discreet for you, bae'.)
Re: 116. 揚之水 - Yang Zhi Shui
When we have seen the princely lord,
Aha, so is this the 'junzi' I've now heard so much about? (I'm only 85% sure - I have indirect knowledge of some hanzi via Korean, and I think this would be read as 군 'gun'+ 자 'ja' which seems to track onto jun+zi?)
Re: 116. 揚之水 - Yang Zhi Shui
Baike says there are several historical figures this was attached to, OR it's a poem about a woman who misses her husband / going on a date. But I think the calm water / conspiracy of the soldiers coming is more compelling.
117. 椒聊 - Jiao Liao
彼其之子、碩大無朋。
椒聊且、遠條且。
The clusters of the pepper plant,
Large and luxuriant, would fill a pint.
That hero there
Is large and peerless.
O the pepper plant!
How its shoots extend!
椒聊之實、蕃衍盈匊。
彼其之子、碩大且篤。
椒聊且、遠條且。
The clusters of the pepper plant,
Large and luxuriant, would fill both your hands.
That hero there
Is large and generous.
O the pepper plant!
How its shoots extend!
Re: 117. 椒聊 - Jiao Liao
"There're three poems involving the meaning of"Chinese red peer"in The Book of Songs.This "meaning"not only refers to its real meaning,but also its rich cultural connotations. According to the Interpretation of the poem,the meaning of word"Jiao"in Tang Feng:Jiao Liao is not praising man for "many sons"but the blessing or praise for women's fertility. On the basis of folk custom,the meaning of word"Jiao"in Chen Feng:Jiao Liao is"to bless or to express emotions as a gift",which also involves the discussion about whether or not the meaning of"Jiao"is"a witch makes the gods come with Chinese red peer". The word"Jiao"in Zhou Song:Zai Shan is not real imagery but a interchangeable word. This also involves the relationships between the poem and the word meaning. Generally speakcing,meaning of a word is always explained from the poetic meaning,but if it is explained from the reverse direction,the meaning of a single word may also affect and even decide the interpretation of a poem." https://en.cnki.com.cn/Article_en/CJFDTotal-LSSZ201402013.htm
Re: 117. 椒聊 - Jiao Liao
Baike says it's not conclusive if this is about [several historical figures brought up], or praising men (for fertility), or praising women (for fertility), or just about women picking peppers. Though it seems likely that the peppers are a metaphor for people and therefore the numerous fruit = descendants. This poem is a good example of the 'bixing' technique.
Re: 117. 椒聊 - Jiao Liao
Re: 117. 椒聊 - Jiao Liao
118. 綢繆 - Chou Mou
今夕何夕、見此良人。
子兮子兮、如此良人何。
Round and round the firewood is bound;
And the Three Stars appear in the sky.
This evening is what evening,
That I see this good man?
O me! O me!
That I should get a good man like this!
綢繆束芻、三星在隅。
今夕何夕、見此邂逅。
子兮子兮、如此邂逅何。
Round and round the grass is bound;
And the Three Stars are seen from the corner.
This evening is what evening,
That we have this unexpected meeting?
Happy pair! Happy pair!
That we should have this unexpected meeting!
綢繆束楚、三星在戶。
今夕何夕、見此粲者。
子兮子兮、如此粲者何。
Round and round the thorns are bound;
And the Three Stars are seen from the door.
This evening is what evening,
That I see this beauty?
O me! O me!
That I should see a beauty like this!
Re: 118. 綢繆 - Chou Mou
"This evening is what evening" this is a bit cumbersome?
Re: 118. 綢繆 - Chou Mou
Re: 118. 綢繆 - Chou Mou
Re: 118. 綢繆 - Chou Mou
Re: 118. 綢繆 - Chou Mou
Re: 118. 綢繆 - Chou Mou
Re: 118. 綢繆 - Chou Mou
119. 杕杜 - Di Du
獨行踽踽。
豈無他人、不如我同父。
嗟行之人、胡不比焉。
人無兄弟、胡不佽焉。
There is a solitary russet pear tree,
[But] its leaves are luxuriant.
Alone I walk unbefriended; -
Is it because there are no other people?
But none are like the sons of one's father.
O ye travellers,
Why do ye not sympathize with me?
Without brothers as I am,
Why do ye not help me?
有杕之杜、其葉菁菁。
獨行睘睘。
豈無他人、不如我同姓。
嗟行之人、胡不比焉。
人無兄弟、胡不佽焉。
There is a solitary russet pear tree,
[But] its leaves are abundant.
Alone I walk uncared for; -
Is it that there are not other people?
But none are like those of one's own surname.
O ye travellers,
Why do ye not sympathize with me?
Without brothers as I am,
Why do ye not help me?
Re: 119. 杕杜 - Di Du
120. 羔裘 - Gao Qiu
豈無他人、維子之故。
Lamb's fur and leopard's cuffs,
You use us with unkindness.
Might we not find another chief?
But [we stay] because of your forefathers.
羔裘豹褎、自我人究究。
豈無他人、維子之好。
Lamb's fur and leopard's cuffs,
You use us with cruel unkindness.
Might we not find another chief?
But [we stay] from our regard to you.
Re: 120. 羔裘 - Gao Qiu
Some Beyonce 'Don't Hurt Yourself' vibes.
Re: 120. 羔裘 - Gao Qiu
121. 鴇羽 - Bao Yu
王事靡盬、不能蓺稷黍、父母何怙。
悠悠蒼天、曷其有所。
Su-su go the feathers of the wild geese,
As they settle on the bushy oaks.
The king's affairs must not be slackly discharged,
And [so] we cannot plant our sacrificial millet and millet; -
What will our parents have to rely on?
O thou distant and azure Heaven!
When shall we be in our places again?
肅肅鴇翼、集于苞棘。
王事靡盬、不能蓺黍稷、父母何食。
悠悠蒼天、曷其有極。
Su-su go the wings of the wild geese,
As they settle on the bushy jujube trees.
The king's affairs must not be slackly discharged,
And [so] we cannot plant our millet and sacrificial millet; -
How shall our parents be supplied with food?
O thou distant and azure Heaven!
When shall [our service] have an end?
肅肅鴇行、集于苞桑。
王事靡盬、不能蓺稻粱、父母何嘗。
悠悠蒼天、曷其有常。
Su-su go the rows of the wild geese,
As they rest on the bushy mulberry trees.
The king's business must not be slackly discharged,
And [so] we cannot plant our rice and maize; -
How shalll our parents get food?
O thou distant and azure Heaven!
When shall we get [back] to our ordinary lot?
Re: 121. 鴇羽 - Bao Yu
What have geese to do with anything, and these bushy plants? Maybe the plants should have been harvested for the sacrifice, but weren't.
Re: 121. 鴇羽 - Bao Yu
Re: 121. 鴇羽 - Bao Yu
Re: 121. 鴇羽 - Bao Yu
122. 無衣 - Wu Yi
How can it be said that he is without robes?
He has those of the seven orders;
But it is better that he get those robes from you.
That will secure tranquillity and good fortune.
豈曰無衣六兮、不如子之衣、安且燠兮。
How can it be said that he is without robes?
He has those of the six orders;
But it is better that he get those robes from you.
That will secure tranquillity and permanence.
Re: 122. 無衣 - Wu Yi
Re: 122. 無衣 - Wu Yi
Re: 122. 無衣 - Wu Yi
Re: 122. 無衣 - Wu Yi
123. 有杕之杜 - You Di Zhi Du
彼君子兮、噬肯適我。
中心好之、曷飲食之。
There is a solitary russet pear tree,
Growing on the left of the way.
That princely man there!
He might be willing to come to me.
In the centre of my heart I love him,
[But] how shall I supply him with drink and food?
有杕之杜、生于道周。
彼君子兮、噬肯來遊。
中心好之、曷飲食之。
There is a solitary russet pear tree,
Growing where the way makes a compass.
That princely man there!
He might be willing to come and ramble [with me].
In the centre of my heart I love him,
[But] how shall I supply him with drink and food?
Re: 123. 有杕之杜 - You Di Zhi Du
Re: 123. 有杕之杜 - You Di Zhi Du
Re: 123. 有杕之杜 - You Di Zhi Du
124. 葛生 - Ge Sheng
予美亡此、誰與獨處。
The dolichos grows, covering the thorn trees;
The convolvulus spreads all over the waste.
The man of my admiration is no more here;
With whom can I dwell? - I abide alone.
葛生蒙棘、蘞蔓于域。
予美亡此、誰與獨息。
The dolichos grows, covering the jujube trees;
The convolvulus spreads all over the tombs.
The man of my admiration is no more here;
With whom can I dwell? - I rest alone.
角枕粲兮、錦衾爛兮。
予美亡此、誰與獨旦。
How beautiful was the pillow of horn!
How splendid was the embroidered coverlet!
The man of my admiration is no more here; -
With whom can I dwell? - Alone [I wait for] the morning.
夏之日、冬之夜、百歲之後、歸於其居。
Through the [long] days of summer,
Through the [long] nights of winter [shall I be alone],
Till the lapse of a hundred years,
When I shall go home to his abode.
冬之夜、夏之日、百歲之後、歸於其室。
Through the [long] nights of winter,
Through the [long] days of summer [shall I be alone],
Till the lapse of a hundred years,
When I shall go home to his chamber.
Re: 124. 葛生 - Ge Sheng
The admired husband being dead or absent (or no longer worth admiring?), the speaker can't live or rest with anyone else. The accoutrements of their marriage bed were very fine.
The speaker-spouse is hoping to die and be with the husband, or to be reincarnated with the husband.
125. 采苓 - Cai Ling
人之為言、苟亦無信。
舍旃舍旃、苟亦無然。
人之為言、胡得焉。
Would you gather the liquorice, would you gather the liquorice,
On the top of Shouyang?
When men tell their stories,
Do not readily believe them;
Put them aside, put them aside.
Do not readily assent to them;
And, when men tell their stories,
How will they find course?
采苦采苦、首陽之下。
人之為言、苟亦無與。
舍旃舍旃、苟亦無然。
人之為言、胡得焉。
Would you gather the sowthistle, would you gather the sowthistle,
At the foot of Shouyang?
When men tell their stories,
Do not readily approve them;
Put them aside, put them aside.
Do not readily assent to them;
And, when men tell their stories,
How will they find course?
采葑采葑、首陽之東。
人之為言、苟亦無從。
舍旃舍旃、苟亦無然。
人之為言、胡得焉。
Would you gather the mustard plant, would you gather the mustard plant,
On the east of Shouyang?
When men tell their stories,
Do not readily listen to them; -
Put them aside, put them aside.
Do not readily assent to them;
And, when men tell their stories,
How will they find course?
Re: 125. 采苓 - Cai Ling
'And, when men tell their stories,
How will they find course?' I don't get this part?
Re: 125. 采苓 - Cai Ling
Re: 125. 采苓 - Cai Ling
Re: 125. 采苓 - Cai Ling
Re: 125. 采苓 - Cai Ling
Re: 125. 采苓 - Cai Ling
no subject