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x_los ([personal profile] x_los) wrote in [community profile] dankodes2021-08-23 04:35 pm

Nineteen Old Poems: Week 2 of 2

 * There were two votes in favour of East Asia Student's translations, so that's what I've gone with. If you prefer or would like to bring another translation into the discussion, please feel free. 

* Chapter Five of 
How to Read Chinese Poetry is specifically about the Nineteen Old Poems.

* Every week I search the poems' English results to see if I can find any scholarship or neat bits and pop the results in Resources. Here is this week's collection.

* Remember you can also look at 
How to Read Chinese Poetry in Contextthough it doesn't specifically treat this collection.

* IF YOU HAVE FRIENDS WHO MIGHT LIKE TO JOIN or have other ideas, please let me know on 
this post.

* I found the best option for the weekly reminder emails, via Gmail. The external service options are more involved than our purposes require. Does anyone know anything about how to arrange an Apps Script? Basically all it has to do is tell ten people, on Saturdays, to come and get their juice/poems.

Until someone knows what to do there, I'll send out manual messages weekly. If you'd like to receive these and are not getting them, please let me know.

* Next batch of poems, the first half of 
Eighteen Songs of a Nomad Flute, MONDAY, AUGUST 30th.
 
superborb: (Default)

Re: 11. 迴車駕言邁 – I turn the carriage, pull the reins and set off

[personal profile] superborb 2021-08-30 01:55 am (UTC)(link)
Baike glosses the eastern wind as spring wind, and the numerous flora as the newborn grass (generic word for plant), and notes that the next line's 'nothing of the past' is referring to the wind shaking the flora.

Baike also notes that the interpretation of 'rongming' 'glory and reputation' is the key to understanding the poem. I think, though am not sure?? that one of them is more like 'life sucks and is short, carpe diem and live happily' and then other is 'live well, but you must maintain your good name'.
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Re: 12. 東城高且長 – The Eastern Wall is High and Long

[personal profile] superborb 2021-08-30 02:33 am (UTC)(link)
There's tons, though some are explanatory vids instead of straight recitations. One of the first hits has a voice that is mildly annoying to me, but https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f56MeO5qLBc&list=PLv0TWoyJkeXYwf53v-VpofNvbgKfk3a0b seems soothing. Probably just search the first line of the poem in Chinese?

From Baike:

Baike glosses the snaking line as referring to a winding and long road or river channel.

The turning wind is a whirlwind.

The crickets being cramped is a continuation of the 'end of year' bit-- as autumn gets coler, crickets will enter the house and die. So it's also a 'life is short' implication.

I think it's like, life is short, instead of worrying, it's better to go seek joy.
superborb: (Default)

Re: 13. 驅車上東門 – I Ride My Chariot from the Upper East Gate

[personal profile] superborb 2021-08-30 11:34 pm (UTC)(link)
Yellow fountains is not glossed by Baike at all?! But it's a word for the underworld.

That does feel like a typo. Baike glosses that line as 'spring and summer are yang and autumn and winter are yin, this sentence means that the passage of time flows like a river, endlessly'

Baike makes it sound like you can't live forever, so wear silks and live your short life happily.
Edited 2021-08-30 23:35 (UTC)
superborb: (Default)

Re: 13. 驅車上東門 – I Ride My Chariot from the Upper East Gate

[personal profile] superborb 2021-08-30 11:52 pm (UTC)(link)
Really shows that people were critical of the alchemical practices contemporaneously.

Additional Baike tidbits:

Turmoil of late Eastern Han Dynasty, etc etc so intellectuals are criticizing society, as they cannot achieve a stable life or occupation.

In ancient times, trees like poplar, pine, cypress, etc were planted on tombs as a sign to make it easy for the descendants to sacrifice and sweep.

"Of the wise and the sage, there are none who can hold it back." -- 'it' here is death.
superborb: (Default)

Re: 14. 去者日以疏 – The Departed Are More Distant Daily

[personal profile] superborb 2021-08-30 11:59 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh yeah, repeating syllables for emphasis / cuteness is a thing in Chinese. I wouldn't call it a verbal tic, just a feature of the language.

I had the most fascinating conversation with a white guy who thought it had been offensive that people were joking around with someone with a Chinese name that she should repeat the syllables of her name (for disambiguation, bc there were a lot of people with the same pinyin name), and in retrospect, it didn't ping me as immediately wrong for this reason.
superborb: (Default)

Re: 14. 去者日以疏 – The Departed Are More Distant Daily

[personal profile] superborb 2021-08-31 12:06 am (UTC)(link)
Baike:

In ancient times, 5 households were neighbors, 25 were a 'li'. Later this became a general term for village.

Baike says this is different from the other 18 poems, which primarily use bixing and reveal the natural scenery + its connotations gradually, by starting immediately with a general summary. Normally, you'd start by walking out of the gate and seeing the tombs.
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Re: 15. 生年不滿百 – The Years of Life Reach Not One Hundred

[personal profile] superborb 2021-08-31 12:16 am (UTC)(link)
Baike thinks this is about being happy in a short life, and satirizing those who are greedy for wealth. Also to not admire immortals.
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Re: 15. 生年不滿百 – The Years of Life Reach Not One Hundred

[personal profile] superborb 2021-08-31 12:20 am (UTC)(link)
Baike glosses 'the time' as 'the coming year' through an extension of the meaning of grass being born once a year.

I was thinking that this set was allll about the shortness of life, enjoying what you have, but this poem does add extra mockery about misers.
superborb: (Default)

Re: 16. 凜凜歲云暮 – Bitterly Cold, the Year Ends

[personal profile] superborb 2021-08-31 12:31 am (UTC)(link)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mole_cricket

Baike's gloss on the smile is 'a kind of attitude/gesture of woman's beauty, from the Shijing's Wei feng, Shuo Ren. here, indicates an intimate expression towards the husband'

Baike glosses 'light' with a word that means 'letter, to trust, to believe'. The morning wind is a type of bird that flies rapidly, that is repeatedly referenced in these poems. Baike's vernacular tl is straightforward: "I only regret that I don't have the wings of a bird of prey, and so cannot fly away to my husband's side'

superborb: (Default)

Re: 16. 凜凜歲云暮 – Bitterly Cold, the Year Ends

[personal profile] superborb 2021-08-31 12:35 am (UTC)(link)
Additional Baike tidbits:

Same gown = same quilt, an ancient way for spouses to refer to each other.

Apparently the use of dreams = romance in this poem influenced later literature.
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Re: 17. 孟冬寒氣至 – In the First Month of Winter, Cold Air Arrives

[personal profile] superborb 2021-08-31 12:43 am (UTC)(link)
Baike glosses the 'trivial' as earnest/sincere, and so it's more like, the sincere feelings are in her heart.
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Re: 18. 客從遠方來 – A Guest Comes from Afar

[personal profile] superborb 2021-08-31 12:57 am (UTC)(link)
Baike says one length is significant bc it's supposed to come as a pair, so maybe relevant? That doesn't end up in its analysis though.

It says that after she ponders over the quilt, she thinks about how the knot in the hem will eventually get loose, so only glue and lacquer are difficult to separate.
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Re: 19. 明月何皎皎 – Why is the Bright Moon So Clear?

[personal profile] superborb 2021-08-31 01:06 am (UTC)(link)
Baike:

Two interpretations: wanderer visiting foreign country, or woman alone in her lady's chamber. Both are basically wandering around at night, either homesick or lonely.