Jun. 3rd, 2021 09:55 pm
Next Up: You Decide
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dankodesWith only four more weeks of Shi Jing left, it's time to to start thinking about what comes next.
I'm going to outline some options and their pros and cons, and in the comments you can argue in favour of any of these, or make a case for something I've not thought about. Then I'll do a tick-box poll where you can express a preference for multiple choices.
All readings will be provided free, and will be bilingual.
In chronological order:
- Chu Ci: Heavy on shamanism, beasts, other supernatural beings and myths. It's less tidy and official than the Shi Jing, and looks to be an interesting read for anyone keen on xianxia. There is a heavily glossed, recentish and impressively fluid translation. But while later than the Shi Jing, it is another early collection. People seem to want a break from that period, so it might be best left until later on. This looks like it might take us roughly 17 weeks.
- Nineteen Old Poems: A Han era collection that would take us about two weeks, which has many decent translations available. This pulls us from the Shi Jing into later work, and gives us that nice 'only took two weeks!' feeling of accomplishment before we begin any longer project. It is still 'earlyish', though, which might be a point against it.
- New Songs from the Jade Terrace: Romantic and a bit sexy, at nearly 700 poems, to me, this collection seems a bit long for us at present.
(Wen Xuan is not in the running: too long.)
- Three Hundred Tang Poems: This multi-author collection features the greatest hits from an era generally considered the apex of the Chinese poetic tradition. (Though a few conservative calls were involved in this 'best of' reckoning, leaving Li He, the Devilish Talent, out completely.) My concern would be that it is, very deliberately, exactly as long as the Shi Jing, which might put people off. This would take about 30 weeks.
A nice, free 'complete works of Wang Wei' translation recently came out. There's also his famous co-authored compilation, Wangchuan ji. I feel both might be better left until we've decided whether we want to go forward with Wang Wei in particular. We're not even discussing Quan Tangshi, it's too long.
douqi expressed some interest in Yuan poetry or Song work, which includes poets like "Ouyang Xiu (kind of), Liu Yong, Su Shi, Li Qingzhao (the Genius Smurfette of the lot), Qin Guan, either Zhou Bangyan or Jiang Kui, maybe the Yan father-son duo, and the soldier guys: Fan Zhongyan, Xin Qiji and that one cannibalistic Yue Fei poem". Qing poetess Gan Lirou also sounds pretty hot. We'd need to hopefully identify a particular collection, though, so I'm not just sourcing random poems in my area of no-expertise.
Comments and suggestions welcome! I'm especially interested in classic collections like the Three Hundred Tang Poems, which have their own historical presence (which increases the chances that someone's written some interesting nonfiction about them).
I'm going to outline some options and their pros and cons, and in the comments you can argue in favour of any of these, or make a case for something I've not thought about. Then I'll do a tick-box poll where you can express a preference for multiple choices.
All readings will be provided free, and will be bilingual.
In chronological order:
- Chu Ci: Heavy on shamanism, beasts, other supernatural beings and myths. It's less tidy and official than the Shi Jing, and looks to be an interesting read for anyone keen on xianxia. There is a heavily glossed, recentish and impressively fluid translation. But while later than the Shi Jing, it is another early collection. People seem to want a break from that period, so it might be best left until later on. This looks like it might take us roughly 17 weeks.
- Nineteen Old Poems: A Han era collection that would take us about two weeks, which has many decent translations available. This pulls us from the Shi Jing into later work, and gives us that nice 'only took two weeks!' feeling of accomplishment before we begin any longer project. It is still 'earlyish', though, which might be a point against it.
- New Songs from the Jade Terrace: Romantic and a bit sexy, at nearly 700 poems, to me, this collection seems a bit long for us at present.
(Wen Xuan is not in the running: too long.)
- Three Hundred Tang Poems: This multi-author collection features the greatest hits from an era generally considered the apex of the Chinese poetic tradition. (Though a few conservative calls were involved in this 'best of' reckoning, leaving Li He, the Devilish Talent, out completely.) My concern would be that it is, very deliberately, exactly as long as the Shi Jing, which might put people off. This would take about 30 weeks.
A nice, free 'complete works of Wang Wei' translation recently came out. There's also his famous co-authored compilation, Wangchuan ji. I feel both might be better left until we've decided whether we want to go forward with Wang Wei in particular. We're not even discussing Quan Tangshi, it's too long.
douqi expressed some interest in Yuan poetry or Song work, which includes poets like "Ouyang Xiu (kind of), Liu Yong, Su Shi, Li Qingzhao (the Genius Smurfette of the lot), Qin Guan, either Zhou Bangyan or Jiang Kui, maybe the Yan father-son duo, and the soldier guys: Fan Zhongyan, Xin Qiji and that one cannibalistic Yue Fei poem". Qing poetess Gan Lirou also sounds pretty hot. We'd need to hopefully identify a particular collection, though, so I'm not just sourcing random poems in my area of no-expertise. Comments and suggestions welcome! I'm especially interested in classic collections like the Three Hundred Tang Poems, which have their own historical presence (which increases the chances that someone's written some interesting nonfiction about them).
Tags:
Additional Options
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighteen_Songs_of_a_Nomad_Flute
https://libmma.contentdm.oclc.org/digital/collection/p15324coll10/id/58570
https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/39569
2 Weeks?
- Star Gauge
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Gauge
https://wordobject.wordpress.com/2015/06/26/text-su-huis-matrix-poem-star-gauge/
1 Week
- TZU-YEH’S Songs of the Four Seasons
seventy-five seasonal poems
https://publish.iupress.indiana.edu/read/k-uei-hsing-a-repository-of-asian-literature-in-translation/section/454d495d-2103-4ebc-be03-554f386ee658
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midnight_Songs_poetry#:~:text=Midnight%20Songs%20poetry%20(Chinese%3A%20%E5%AD%90%E5%A4%9C,during%20the%20fourth%20century%20CE.
8 Weeks
- Facing the Moon: Poems of Li Bai and Du Fu
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Facing-Moon-Poems-Li-Bai-ebook/dp/B00RYK6W4C?
(28, 28) 6 weeks? shorter than Tang 300, anyway
- The Selected Poems of Du Fu
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Selected-Poems-Translations-Asian-Classics/dp/0231128290
(127 poems: 13 weeks)
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Possibly a thing for the future, though I'm not sure whether there are good collections available: Jian'an poetry (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jian%27an_poetry), which bridges the end of the Han Dynasty and the beginning of the Six Dynasties, said to mark the transition from folk songs to scholarly poetry. Three Kingdoms association bonus: the most prominent figure from this tradition is Cao Zhi (courtesy name Zijian), Cao Cao's third son (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cao_Zhi). My username comes from his 'hey let's maybe stop this infighting poem'.
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Also a Li Qingzhao collection, available for free: https://library.oapen.org/bitstream/id/4f210ef9-3d96-49ba-926c-cab1bc502e33/1006618.pdf
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Su Shi collections (I'd need to transcribe these or find an online copy--v possible):
1. 80 pages so let's say 80 poems, 8 weeks?
2. 249 pages in dual Chinese and English, so let's say 100 poems, 10 weeks?
Li Qingzhao, 89 poems, approx. 9 weeks
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Anyway my vote is for 'something with a good translation' because I don't have time to like haphazardly slog through the Chinese bc the extant tl sucks. No one's fault except the...publishers? I guess? and maybe Mr Legge? idk.
I'd vote to do that 2-week Han collection as a transition, and then something a little longer: Three Hundred Tang Poems seems a good bet, but might I throw in a vote for the Four Seasons collection? We could do that after Tang for pleasant chronology, which appeals to me from a language development POV but that's not uh everyone's ideal way of doing things XD