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x_los ([personal profile] x_los) wrote in [community profile] dankodes2021-04-05 02:32 am

Shi Jing, The Book of Odes: Minor Odes of the Kingdom, Decade of Tong Gong

* I found the best option for the weekly reminder emails, via Gmail. The external service options are more involved than our purposes require. Does anyone know anything about how to arrange an Apps Script? Basically all it has to do is tell ten people, on Saturdays, to come and get their juice/poems.

Until someone knows what to do there, I'll send out manual messages weekly. If you'd like to receive these and are not getting them, please let me know.

* If you haven't read it yet, chapter one, on tetrasyllabic shi poetry, in 
How to Read Chinese Poetry is hugely useful for the Book of Odes, imo.

* IF YOU HAVE FRIENDS WHO MIGHT LIKE TO JOIN or have other ideas, please let me know on 
this post.

* Every week I search the poems' English results to see if I can find any scholarship or neat bits and pop the results in Resources. Here is this week's 
collection.

* I recently wrote about the China History Podcast, which has a whole series on Tang Poetry, and might well be of general interest.

**NEXT BATCH APRIL 12.**

Re: 175. 彤弓 - Tong Gong

[personal profile] ann712 2021-04-07 06:38 pm (UTC)(link)
LOL. Strangled by a red bow.
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Re: 175. 彤弓 - Tong Gong

[personal profile] superborb 2021-04-11 06:32 pm (UTC)(link)
Baike glosses the red bows as bows lacquered red, used by the emperor to reward meritorious feudal vassals/princes. Later it says the bow giving as etiquette was used from the Western Zhou dynasty to the Spring and Autumn Period.

I think Legge made up the frames part. Based on the Baike gloss and vernacular translations, it seems to be more like "The relaxed red bows, were received and loaded into the carriage / collected".

Edited 2021-04-11 18:51 (UTC)

Re: 176. 菁菁者莪 - Jing Jing Zhe E

[personal profile] ann712 2021-04-07 06:41 pm (UTC)(link)
Asters are annual
Southern wood perennial

Things are good in the short and long term?
superborb: (Default)

Re: 176. 菁菁者莪 - Jing Jing Zhe E

[personal profile] superborb 2021-04-11 07:12 pm (UTC)(link)
Baike says in the opening paragraph that there is controversy over if this is about students happy about seeing the lord, who educates them, or if this is a love poem. But then in the longer description, it says most people think it is a love poem. As you may expect, Mao's commentary said it was about education, and a later source criticizes that by saying Mao's commentary has entirely missed the poetic flavor.

Aster-southernwood is glossed by a bunch of words that are not in my dictionary as a single phrase, but google translate thinks is Artemisia edulis, Artemisia radiata; it links to https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E8%8E%AA%E8%92%BF/1117970; the gloss says it is a type of edible weed.

Cowries has an interesting gloss. So the word is 朋, which now has the sole meaning of friend, but the gloss says: "ancient people used cowries as currency, with five or ten in a string. A pair of strings would be called 朋".

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Re: 177. 六月 - Liu Yue

[personal profile] superborb 2021-04-11 07:18 pm (UTC)(link)
Zhang Zhong is glossed by Baike as Zhou Xuan wang's qingshi. When I looked up qingshi, it's a particular level of high ranking official
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Re: 177. 六月 - Liu Yue

[personal profile] superborb 2021-04-11 07:30 pm (UTC)(link)
Baike: about the northern expedition of Yin Jifu to repel the Xianyun during the time of Zhou Xuan wang. He's said to be main person involved in collecting the Shijing and considered the ancestor of Chinese poetry.
Edited 2021-04-11 19:30 (UTC)

Re: 178. 采芑 - Cai Qi

[personal profile] ann712 2021-04-07 06:44 pm (UTC)(link)
Reminds me of Kutuzov in War and Peace
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Re: 178. 采芑 - Cai Qi

[personal profile] superborb 2021-04-11 07:46 pm (UTC)(link)
It's during the reign of the same king anyway (according to Baike).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xianyun mentions that there are four poems about battles between the Zhou and Xianyun in the Shijing.
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Re: 179. 車攻 - Che Gong

[personal profile] superborb 2021-04-11 08:05 pm (UTC)(link)
Baike says this is about the same king as the two previous poems, Zhou Xuan wang, hunting with his feudal vassals/princes in the eastern city (? not sure if this is a particular city or what)

'like the crowd of an occasional or a general audience': [the second part of the phrase:] a meeting of the feudal vassals/princes, a specific name for the feudal princes to have an audience with the emperor. Here, refers to the feudal princes participating in the emperor's hunt. [the first part of the phrase:] continuously, an unceasing and orderly appearance
'The great kitchen': the emperor's kitchen
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Re: 179. 車攻 - Che Gong

[personal profile] superborb 2021-04-12 01:26 am (UTC)(link)
So the original phrase means "the emperor's kitchen" "not" "filled/surplus", but the Baike vernacular translation says 猎毕厨房野味盈 after hunting, the kitchen was filled with game. It says about the seventh stanza as a whole that it describes after the hunt, the successful and fruitful achievements and relaxing of tension.

I don't think I understand what the "not" is supposed to do here; maybe it is some poetic or archaic form?
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Re: 180. 吉日 - Ji Ri

[personal profile] superborb 2021-04-11 08:21 pm (UTC)(link)
Now that I've realized that the person who compiled the Shijing worked during the Zhou Xuan gong time period, I'm less surprised that there are a gazillion poems about his hunting parties-- but do we really need this many.

This was written in Haojing, the western capital, during the annual event where the country's civil and military achievements would be shown off.

Wu is a word for 'fifth'. Baike says it means 'the fifth day', though one source says 'fifth month' and another says 'the fifth year of the 60 year cycle'; ancient people believed the fifth day was suitable for external activities, like patrols, hunting, meetings, troops leaving, etc.
gengwu means 'the seventh year of the 60 year cycle', Baike has no gloss for it.
Baike says the rhino could be a big bison or a rhino.
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Re: 181. 鴻雁 - Hong Yan

[personal profile] superborb 2021-04-11 09:37 pm (UTC)(link)
Baike: this is a work of 'realism poetry', expressing "the hungry sing for food, the laborers sing for work" [I'm not sure what the last word is supposed to express; it also means matter/thing/item/affair]. The first stanza describes refugees performing forced labor, even the widowers not spared; the geese flying around represent the sigh/lament of the homeless with no place to settle down. The second stanza describes the forced labor as building the wall; the geese gather like the refugees are gathered. The final stanza expresses how the refugees' sorrow is met with ridicule by the rich; the cry of the geese is in echo of the bleakness of the refugees' lives. The poem combines bi and xing techniques.

I think Legge's translation of the second stanza contradicts Baike's reading -- Baike reads the last sentence as if they are unable to have a place to live.

The title of the poem, the swan goose, is now a byword for the suffering of refugees.

The time period is either during Zhou Li wang or Zhou Xuan wang, during the late Western Zhou Dynasty when there was a rebellion by Li wang, an invasion by the Xianyun, and drought, so a large number of people were displaced.

Mao's commentary, as always, says this praises Zhou Xuan wang, that there may be scattered and restless people, but they can work and gather safely. Others believe it is the refugees describing their misery. Others that it describes how Zhou wang sent out envoys everywhere to give emergency relief to the refugees.
Edited 2021-04-11 21:46 (UTC)
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Re: 182. 庭燎 - Ting Liao

[personal profile] superborb 2021-04-11 09:57 pm (UTC)(link)
Baike says this shows the diligence of Zhou Xuan wang. Potentially after his empress admonished him for negligence in his middle age by taking off her hairpin.

The reasons it's definitely about Zhou Xuan wang is because "The torch is blazing in the court-yard." indicates it's someone living in the imperial household; "My princely men are arriving; -
" also indicates the imperial household; "How goes the night?" is the question that the king asks the chicken-person (who announces the dawn) and "The night is not yet through." is the response as dictated in the Rites of Zhou.
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Re: 182. 庭燎 - Ting Liao

[personal profile] superborb 2021-04-12 01:17 am (UTC)(link)
Yeah, I have no idea what the hairpin part was about. I guess it's an action that had some significance???????
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Re: 183. 沔水 - Mian Shui

[personal profile] superborb 2021-04-11 10:15 pm (UTC)(link)
Baike:

Legge has an excellently evocative translation of "Go to the court of the sea." The gloss for this phrase says: to turn towards, to return to the sect/school/clan; originally meant the feudal vassals/princes having an audience with the emperor, later metaphorically means all rivers return to the sea (all things tend in one direction).

The falcon is glossed as a ferocious bird, could be an eagle, bird of prey, osprey, etc, good at hunting prey and flies high.

One of the sources thinks this was written in the early years of the Eastern Zhou Dynasty, when Ping wang moved east, the dynasty became weak and the feudal vassals no longer supported it. The Haojing area became dangerous.

Baike also points out that it's rare in the Shijing to use four phrases (in the first two stanzas) to have two bixing sentences.
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Re: 183. 沔水 - Mian Shui

[personal profile] superborb 2021-04-12 01:16 am (UTC)(link)
Means 'king'. 'Huangdi' wasn't invented until the Qin dynasty, and typically 'wang' is translated to 'king' in English instead of 'emperor'. I... don't know why, it just seems to be what people do?
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Re: 184. 鶴鳴 - He Ming

[personal profile] superborb 2021-04-11 11:13 pm (UTC)(link)
Baike is not very conclusive on this poem -- lots of possible explanations. Satire that the Zhou dynasty should recruit the talented people in seclusion? To advise people to live virtuously? A poem to advocate for recruiting talents for the country?

Full of metaphors, which all have (of course) varying interpretations too...