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[personal profile] x_los posting in [community profile] dankodes
This week we're reading The Works of Li Qingzhao, freely available via De Gruyter's Library of Chinese Humanities in Mandarin and English and via several publication formats, including two open access options (the pdf appears to be better formatted than the ebook; it might be worth someone letting them know as much). We're starting with the introduction and poems 1.1 to 1.5, inclusive.

This collection uses footnotes and end notes to explicate the work (though none of this week's poems has an end note).

We might get into more English exegesis, but this week the Introduction gives us more than enough of that to be getting on with.

CLP has an episode on Li Qingzhao you might find relevant.
Date: 2021-12-05 08:52 pm (UTC)

Re: Introduction

douqi: (Default)
From: [personal profile] douqi
The National University is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guozijian

More about their research/archival process in this entry on Zhao Mingcheng here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhao_Mingcheng

'Rivers and lakes' — I bet that's 'jianghu' in the original text.

"I couldn’t stand it, so I decided that we would eat no more than one meat dish per meal and dress in no more than one colored garment at a time. I wore no pearls or feathers in my hair and kept no gilded or embroidered article in my household." — I assume they were spending all their money on books/storing and maintaining their collection? Would be super helpful if the editors had included the original Chinese text for these quotations.

"reflecting contemporary Ming notions of a “talented scholar and beauty” (caizi jiaren 才子佳人) match." — yeah, that only works if Li Qingzhao was the caizi, and Zhao Mingcheng the jiaren.

"There is a long-standing and seldom examined tradition of reading all of Li Qingzhao’s song lyrics as unmitigated expressions of her life and feelings." — there's sometimes an inverse thing happening with the interpretation of male ci writers' pieces. E.g. Xin Qiji's Green Jade Table, ostensibly about running into a hot girl at a Lantern Festival, is typically read as a commentary on the state of society (see https://londonjournalspress.com/on-the-english-translation-of-song-ci-poetry-under-the-three-level-poetry-translation-criteria-a-case-study-of-green-jade-table-lantern-festival)
Date: 2021-12-05 11:45 pm (UTC)

Re: Introduction

superborb: (Default)
From: [personal profile] superborb
Are you castigating that 30 volume work he produced? Hahahahhaha

And agree re: interpretation on the line about their austerity.
Edited Date: 2021-12-05 11:48 pm (UTC)
Date: 2021-12-06 12:42 am (UTC)

Re: 1.1 春殘 The End of Spring

superborb: (Default)
From: [personal profile] superborb
You were not exaggerating on the wtfery of this epub. Where are the translations??? @.@

I think (and Baike seems to agree) that she's on her sickbed?
superborb: (Default)
From: [personal profile] superborb
Sogdia - an ancient Iranian civilization in present-day Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Kazakhstan, and Kyrgyzstan per wiki.

From Baike:

The emperor loved cockfighting and this distraction led to his downfall. Later generations will use "Five Imperial Pens children" to refer to those who do not do honest work.
The meat and ale is glossed as a luxurious life.

Yeah, she's saying Xuanzong in contrast sucksssss.

"left then for spirits and ghosts to obliterate on a cliff" -- the Baike vernacular sounds more like 'might as well ask ghosts and deities to wear down a mountain'?
superborb: (Default)
From: [personal profile] superborb
I guess Li Linfu is generally considered pretty corrupt anyway.
superborb: (Default)
From: [personal profile] superborb
Wiki seems much more positive on how powerful Xuanzong was after abdicating than the book.

Shepherd's purse is delicious, though I guess its use is still localized to the Jiangnan region even in modern China.
douqi: (Default)
From: [personal profile] douqi
"but kept my mouth shut, not seeking to be known" — linked to the next two lines, the vibe I'm getting is: the average person doesn't really understand how good I am, I'm holding out for a Yang Jingzhi-type person to properly appreciate me.
superborb: (Default)
From: [personal profile] superborb
Yeah, Baike agrees and editorializes that she doesn't need the world to appreciate her, just a proper connoisseur (I assume the proper connoisseur bit is implied by the use of 伯樂).
Date: 2021-12-05 09:20 pm (UTC)

Re: 1.5 感懷 Stirred by Feelings

douqi: (Default)
From: [personal profile] douqi
'Rhymes for Rituals' — from a brief google and skim, one of two books of rhyme words you could officially use in poetry, including in the imperial exams.
Date: 2021-12-05 10:01 pm (UTC)

Re: 1.5 感懷 Stirred by Feelings

douqi: (Default)
From: [personal profile] douqi
There's a subgenre of classical Chinese poetry called the 'boudoir lament' (闺怨), often associated with women poets (though men wrote these too) where a lonely, neglected woman laments the absence of her lover/husband. The Baike entry I saw for this poem situates it adjacent to this genre but highlights that, to the extent that this poem fits within this category, it's an unusual specimen.
Date: 2021-12-06 01:56 am (UTC)

Re: 1.5 感懷 Stirred by Feelings

superborb: (Default)
From: [personal profile] superborb
This is before the Jurchen invasions.

A rime book issued by the Song gov't.

Baike just glosses the prefectural room as the dwelling place of an official. I don't think he's governor yet-- Baike says he's a 知州 (senior provincial gov't official), though I guess that might be a translation choice because Wiki uses 'magistrate' for what this book is calling 'governor'.

Baike really wants to make this sound like Zhao Mingcheng is all about simplicity, which seems... wrong...
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