![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
x_los posting in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png){kind=small}
dankodes* I know the two titular Weis are confusing; I believe they're different characters both rendered thus in Pinyin.
* I found the best option for the weekly reminder emails, via Gmail. The external service options are more involved than our purposes require. Does anyone know anything about how to arrange an Apps Script? Basically all it has to do is tell ten people, on Saturdays, to come and get their juice/poems.
* If you haven't read it yet, chapter one, on tetrasyllabic shi poetry, in How to Read Chinese Poetry is hugely useful for the Book of Odes, imo.
* IF YOU HAVE FRIENDS WHO MIGHT LIKE TO JOIN or have other ideas, please let me know on this post.
* Every week I search the poems' English results to see if I can find any scholarship or neat bits and pop the results in Resources. Here is this week's collection.
* I found the best option for the weekly reminder emails, via Gmail. The external service options are more involved than our purposes require. Does anyone know anything about how to arrange an Apps Script? Basically all it has to do is tell ten people, on Saturdays, to come and get their juice/poems.
* If you haven't read it yet, chapter one, on tetrasyllabic shi poetry, in How to Read Chinese Poetry is hugely useful for the Book of Odes, imo.
* IF YOU HAVE FRIENDS WHO MIGHT LIKE TO JOIN or have other ideas, please let me know on this post.
* Every week I search the poems' English results to see if I can find any scholarship or neat bits and pop the results in Resources. Here is this week's collection.
107. 葛屨 - Ge Ju
摻摻女手、可以縫裳。
要之襋之、好人服之。
Shoes thinly woven of the dolichos fibre,
May be used to walk on the hoarfrost.
The delicate fingers of a bride,
May be used in making clothes.
[His bride] puts the waistband to his lower garment and the collar to his upper,
And he, a wealthy man, wears them.
好人提提、宛然左辟、佩其象揥。
維是褊心、是以為刺。
Wealthy, he moves about quite at ease,
And politely he stands aside to the left.
From his girdle hangs his ivory comb-pin.
It is the narrowness of his disposition,
Which makes him a subject for satire.
Re: 107. 葛屨 - Ge Ju
So what is the contrast of thin, delicate things doing? Like, the man's careful, delicate appearance and comportment or face has the same 'thin' quality or narrowness as his attitude, but one is a problem and one isn't?
In Western historical clothing, collars etc are often replaceable, because they wear more quickly, and/or specially embellished. There are jokes (from truth) about poor men sewing shirt collars onto their jackets like a tuxedo shirt to look respectable, when in fact they can't afford the actual shirt that should be sewn to them/go under the jacket. This comes up for ex in Dickensian material.
Re: 107. 葛屨 - Ge Ju
Re: 107. 葛屨 - Ge Ju
纠纠葛屦，可以履霜。
Jiū jiū gé jù, kěyǐ lǚ shuāng.
woven woven the ivy-hemp shoes, can they be worn to walk upon frost?
掺掺女手，可以缝裳。
Càn càn nǚ shǒu, kěyǐ fèng shang.
slender, so slender, the lady's hands, can they sew clothing into being?
要之襋之，好人服之。
Yào zhī jí zhī, hǎorén fú zhī.
the waist, the collar, the fine person puts it all on
好人提提，宛然左辟，佩其象揥。
Hǎorén tí tí, wǎnrán zuǒ pì, pèi qí xiàng tì.
the fine person feels wonderful, giving a twirl and then stepping left in avoidance, ivory pin worn in their hair
维是褊心，是以为刺。
Wéi shì biǎn xīn, shì yǐwéi cì.
it is because of such narrow-heartedness, that this poem was written as mockery
the poet walks on the street and sees a poor seamstress working at fine clothes everyday. she is so poor, she wears her summer hemp shoes right into winter, and struggles on icy roads.
when she has completed her work, the person who buys the clothes is dressed in finery with an ivory hair accessory. they try on the clothes and twirl on the spot to get a good look, but step aside with clear disdain for the seamstress.
the poet is like D:< the nerve of some people!!!!! i must record this disgraceful, unappreciative behavior so people may see the contrast as an third party and feel ashamed when they do this!
108. 汾沮洳 - Fen Ju Ru
彼其之子、美無度。
美無度、殊異乎公路。
There in the oozy grounds of the Fen,
They gather the sorrel.
That officer,
Is elegant beyond measure.
He is elegant beyond measure.
But, perhaps, he is not what the superintendent of the ruler's carriages ought to be.
彼汾一方、言采其桑。
彼其之子、美如英。
美如英、殊異乎公行。
There along the side of the Fen,
They gather the mulberry leaves.
That officer,
Is elegant as a flower.
He is elegant as a flower;
But, perhaps, he is not what the marshaller of the carriages ought to be.
彼汾一曲、言采其藚。
彼其之子、美如玉。
美如玉、殊異乎公族。
There along the bend of the Fen,
They gather the ox-lips.
That officer,
Is elegant as a gem.
He is elegant as a gem;
But, perhaps, he is not what the superintendent of the ruler's relations should be.
Re: 108. 汾沮洳 - Fen Ju Ru
Is the agricultural work unconnected, or merely connected to the situation via simile, or is it what he's supposed to be supervising?
This poem reminds me of this bit from Henry IV, part 1:
HOTSPUR
My liege, I did deny no prisoners.
But I remember, when the fight was done,
When I was dry with rage and extreme toil,
Breathless and faint, leaning upon my sword,
Came there a certain lord, neat, and trimly dress'd,
Fresh as a bridegroom; and his chin new reap'd
Show'd like a stubble-land at harvest-home;
He was perfumed like a milliner;
And 'twixt his finger and his thumb he held
A pouncet-box, which ever and anon
He gave his nose and took't away again;
Who therewith angry, when it next came there,
Took it in snuff; and still he smiled and talk'd,
And as the soldiers bore dead bodies by,
He call'd them untaught knaves, unmannerly,
To bring a slovenly unhandsome corse
Betwixt the wind and his nobility.
With many holiday and lady terms
He question'd me; amongst the rest, demanded
My prisoners in your majesty's behalf.
I then, all smarting with my wounds being cold,
To be so pester'd with a popinjay,
Out of my grief and my impatience,
Answer'd neglectingly I know not what,
He should or he should not; for he made me mad
To see him shine so brisk and smell so sweet
And talk so like a waiting-gentlewoman
Of guns and drums and wounds,--God save the mark!--
And telling me the sovereign'st thing on earth
Was parmaceti for an inward bruise;
And that it was great pity, so it was,
This villanous salt-petre should be digg'd
Out of the bowels of the harmless earth,
Which many a good tall fellow had destroy'd
So cowardly; and but for these vile guns,
He would himself have been a soldier.
This bald unjointed chat of his, my lord,
I answer'd indirectly, as I said;
And I beseech you, let not his report
Come current for an accusation
Betwixt my love and your high majesty.
Re: 108. 汾沮洳 - Fen Ju Ru
彼汾沮洳，言采其莫。
Bǐ fén jù rù, yán cǎi qí mò.
That person by the muddy Fen River then plucked the bristle docks.
彼其之子，美无度。
Bǐ qí zhīzǐ, měi wúdù.
"That man is beautiful beyond measure -
美无度，殊异乎公路。
Měi wúdù, shū yìhū gōnglù.
beautiful beyond measure, outstandingly different from the superintendent of the ruler's carriage."
彼汾一方，言采其桑。
Bǐ fén yīfāng, yán cǎi qí sāng.
That person on the other bank of the Fen River then plucked the mulberry leaves.
彼其之子，美如英。
Bǐ qí zhīzǐ, měi rú yīng.
"That man is as beautiful as a flower -
美如英，殊异乎公行。
Měi rú yīng, shū yìhū gōng xíng.
beautiful as a flower, outstandingly different from the marshal of the carriages."
彼汾一曲，言采其藚。
Bǐ fén yī qū, yán cǎi qí xù.
That person at another bend of the Fen River then plucked the ox-lips.
彼其之子，美如玉。
Bǐ qí zhīzǐ, měi rú yù.
"That man as beautiful as jade -
美如玉，殊异乎公族。
Měi rú yù, shū yìhū gōng zú
beautiful as jade, outstandingly different from the ranks of nobility."
i took a whack at 《 陟岵》 first before this one bc i liked the subject there a little more (also bc it's shorter lol), but they've both got that whole 'progression of time and intensity' vibe going on. in this case i suppose it's the speaker's interest and attraction to the dude they're talking about.
okies so! let's start off by clarifying: 'that person' 彼 (gender unspecified) at SOME position relative to the fen river 汾 across the first line of the three parts, is a DIFFERENT one for sure from 'the other person' 彼其 (gender specified to be male 之子) in the second lines. i guess the first person is implied to be female just by the things they're doing i.e. picking wild plants, mulberry leaves and herbs, and will be referred to as 'she' from now on. she lives nearby i suppose, and he has stuff to do in the area.
the first time she catches sight of him, she is totally blown away. she's never seen someone so beautiful!!!! and too busy being awed, to her his beauty was without measure. the second time she sees him, she's clearly had time to think about it and he's as beautiful as a flower! blooming flowers in their prime; the world is more beautiful for their presence.
the third time she sees him, oh, this is interesting. she thinks he's as beautiful as jade! jade which is associated with good moral character, virtue, a certain inborn nobility of nature.
just as a point of interest as digging the rabbit hole led me to another shijing entry (pls take with a pinch of salt as i have not read it in its entirety lol):
言念君子 温其如玉
the gentleman whom i long for is as gentle, as warm as jade
- from 秦风·小戎 odes of qin, xiao rong
and he is better looking than those officials and nobility AND a man of good moral character, unlike them. high praise, young lady, high praise indeed.
i do wonder what IS the selection criteria for 'superintendent of the ruler's carriage' and 'marshal of the carriages'. is appearance one of the considerations for her to compare them? or are they just the most important official that she has seen?
Re: 108. 汾沮洳 - Fen Ju Ru
Re: 108. 汾沮洳 - Fen Ju Ru
109. 園有桃 - Yuan You Tao
心之憂矣、我歌且謠。
不我知者、謂我士也驕。
彼人是哉、子曰何其。
心之憂矣、其誰知之。
其誰知之、蓋亦勿思。
Of the peach trees in the garden,
The fruit may be used as food.
My heart is grieved,
And I play and sing.
Those who do not know me,
Say I am a scholar venting his pride.
'Those men are right;
What do you mean by your words?'
My heart is grieved;
Who knows [the cause of] it?
Who knows [the cause of] it?
[They know it not], because they will not think.
園有棘、其實之食。
心之憂矣、聊以行國。
不我知者、謂我士也罔極。
彼人是哉、子曰何其。
心之憂矣、其誰知之。
其誰知之、蓋亦勿思。
Of the jujube trees in the garden,
The fruit may be used as food.
My heart is grieved,
And I think I must travel about through the State.
Those who do not know me,
Say I am an officer going to the verge of license.
' Those men are right;
What do you mean by your words? '
My heart is grieved;
Who knows [the cause of] it?
Who knows [the cause of] it?
[They do not know it], because they will not think.
Re: 109. 園有桃 - Yuan You Tao
So these trees are ornamental and of use, and this person wants to be of use but has instead been scorned and relegated to some runner-up scholar position.
I believe 'the verge of license' indicates the scholar is dangerously close to speaking his mind too freely and criticising people he shouldn't, because he's pissed about being overlooked.
Re: 109. 園有桃 - Yuan You Tao
I would just like to point out that in Baike's vernacular version of the poem, they have the poet refer to himself as 书呆子, a nerd.
Re: 109. 園有桃 - Yuan You Tao
110. 陟岵 - Zhi Hu
父曰嗟、予子行役、夙夜無已。
上慎旃哉、猶來無止。
I ascend that tree-clad hill,
And look towards [the residence of] my father.
My father is saying, ' Alas! my son, abroad on the public service,
Morning and night never rests.
May he be careful,
That he may come [back], and not remain there! '
陟彼屺兮、瞻望母兮。
母曰嗟、予季行役、夙夜無寐。
上慎旃哉、猶來無棄。
I ascend that bare hill,
And look towards [the residence of] my mother.
My mother is saying, ' Alas! my child, abroad on the public service,
Morning and night has no sleep.
May he be careful,
That he may come [back], and not leave his body there! '
陟彼岡兮、瞻望兄兮。
兄曰嗟、予弟行役、夙夜必偕。
上慎旃哉、猶來無死。
I ascend that ridge,
And look towards [the residence of] my elder brother.
My brother is saying, ' Alas! my younger brother, abroad on the public service,
Morning and night must consort with his comrades.
May he be careful,
That he may come back, and not die! '
Re: 110. 陟岵 - Zhi Hu
Re: 110. 陟岵 - Zhi Hu
Father:
He's on a 岵 verdant mountain looking homewards. His father calls out to him '予子 my son/child'. He would worry for the soldier because he has 夙夜無已 no time to rest, telling him 無止 not to dally and to come home soon. There's a feeling of familial concern here, but also very much 'don't forget your duty to the family' sorta. very asian dad xD
Mother:
He's on a 屺 rocky, bare mountain now, looking homeward. His mother calls out to him '予季 my youngest' (when you are someone's 'child', well they have another. but when you are your mom's baby then 🥺). Her heart would ache for him because he has 夙夜無寐 no time to even sleep, telling him to return and not to 無棄 forget home (possible interpretations of 無棄 are not to abandon yourself i.e. die, and not to abandon your home i.e. by not coming back). Idk I get a more emotional feel here, possibly it's been a longer time away and moms always bring out the more tender part of you xD
Brother:
He's on a 岡 mountain ridge and the climb here harder than before, and still looks homeward. His brother calls out to him '予弟 my little brother'. He sympathizes because 夙夜必偕 they work in the night just as they would in the days, telling him to return and to 無死 not die. T_T But out of them, my bro is the one who grew up with me and he just wants me to not die and please please come back. Also, sorta get a feeling that death has gone from a possibility to something he is actually looking in the face of. Hence coming right out and saying it.
Overall, instead of describing the difficulties and how much he misses his family and home, i think it hits differently and also like it a lot more that we get a peek into his thoughts & and the vividness of the people he imagines in what time he has to snatch, looking in a general direction. eg. 'my home is north of here, though exactly where? i'm not sure. i wonder what they would say if they're seeing me now' sorta feel.
Re: 110. 陟岵 - Zhi Hu
found it while googling something else and thought it might be interesting to share!
- actually wouldn't it be fun to find out more chengyu that originate from shijing?
Re: 110. 陟岵 - Zhi Hu
111. 十畝之閒 - Shi Mu Zhi Jian
行與子還兮。
Among their ten acres,
The mulberry-planters stand idly about.
'Come,' [says one to another], 'I will return with you.'
十畝之外兮、桑者泄泄兮。
行與子逝兮。
Beyond those ten acres,
The mulberry-planters move idly about.
'Come,' [says one to another], 'I will go away with you.'
Re: 111. 十畝之閒 - Shi Mu Zhi Jian
Re: 111. 十畝之閒 - Shi Mu Zhi Jian
note: a mu 畝 according to wikipedia is 1/15th of a hectare, which makes it about 1.5 acres. i'll just keep mu as the unit of measure since there's no equivalent xD 10 acres would be like roughly 10 football fields. and it's a BIG plantation bc even outside of that 10 mu, there is YET MORE mulberry trees.
Within that ten mu, the mulberry leaf pickers do so idly idly (hey ~).
"With you, I shall return (hey ~)."
Outside of the ten mu, the mulberry leaf pickers do so leisurely, leisurely (hey ~).
"With you, I shall go forth (hey)."
there's two ways to see it - maybe more still because all the keywords here have so many possibilities!
within this big mulberry plantation, the ladies (mulberry leaf pickers were usually ladies) work at a comfortable, unhurried pace. they're plucking the food for the silkworms, so they have to pick the nice leaves. it's like a little bubble of its own here, separated from the world outside. afterwards, they return home with their fellow workers. OR they return home with their husbands xD
Re: 111. 十畝之閒 - Shi Mu Zhi Jian
Everything about the farming is super interesting, I would NOT have thought about what the farm was /for/ and how it worked!
Re: 111. 十畝之閒 - Shi Mu Zhi Jian
Re: 111. 十畝之閒 - Shi Mu Zhi Jian
112. 伐檀 - Fa Tan
不稼不穡、胡取禾三百廛兮。
不狩不獵、胡瞻爾庭有縣貆兮。
彼君子兮、不素餐兮。
Kan-kan go his blows on the sandal trees,
And he places what he hews on the river's bank,
Whose waters flow clear and rippling.
You sow not nor reap; -
How do you get the produce of those three hundred farms?
You do not follow the chase; -
How do we see the badgers hanging up in your court-yards?
O that superior man!
He would not eat the bread of idleness!
坎坎伐輻兮、寘之河之側兮、河水清且直猗。
不稼不穡、胡取禾三百億兮。
不狩不獵、胡瞻爾庭有縣特兮。
彼君子兮、不素食兮。
Kan-kan go his blows on the wood for his spokes,
And he places it by the side of the river,
Whose waters flow clear and even.
You sow not nor reap; -
How do you get your three millions of sheaves?
You do not follow the chase; -
How do we see those three-year-olds hanging in your court-yards?
O that superior man!
He would not eat the bread of idleness!
坎坎伐輪兮、寘之河之漘兮、河水清且淪猗。
不稼不穡、胡取禾三百囷兮。
不狩不獵、胡瞻爾庭有縣鶉兮。
彼君子兮、不素飧兮。
Kan-kan go his blows on the wood for his wheels,
And he places it by the lip of the river,
Whose waters flow clear in rippling circles.
You sow not nor reap; -
How do you get the paddy for your three hundred round binns?
You do not follow the chase; -
How do we see the quails hanging in your court-yards?
O that superior man!
He would not eat the bread of idleness!
Re: 112. 伐檀 - Fa Tan
'where'd you get them badgers, bro?', a classic ode to sexy woodcutters&hating the rich
Re: 112. 伐檀 - Fa Tan
素餐 would literally be vegetarian meal, but here means "eating for free" or "reaping without sowing"
300 is meant as just a large number
113. 碩鼠 - Shuo Shu
三歲貫女、莫我肯顧。
逝將去女、適彼樂土。
樂土樂土、爰得我所。
Large rats! Large rats!
Do not eat our millet.
Three years have we had to do with you,
And you have not been willing to show any regard for us.
We will leave you,
And go to that happy land.
Happy land! Happy land!
There shall we find our place.
碩鼠碩鼠、無食我麥。
三歲貫女、莫我肯德。
逝將去女、適彼樂國。
樂國樂國、爰得我直。
Large rats! Large rats!
Do not eat our wheat.
Three years have we had to do with you,
And you have not been willing to show any kindness to us.
We will leave you,
And go to that happy State.
Happy State! Happy State!
There shall we find ourselves right.
碩鼠碩鼠、無食我苗。
三歲貫女、莫我肯勞。
逝將去女、適彼樂郊。
樂郊樂郊、誰之永號。
Large rats! Large rats!
Do not eat our springing grain!
Three years have we had to do with you,
And you have not been willing to think of our toil.
We will leave you,
And go to those happy borders.
Happy borders! Happy borders!
Who will there make us always to groan?
Re: 113. 碩鼠 - Shuo Shu
Re: 113. 碩鼠 - Shuo Shu
Interestingly, as in 112, here they say three years, but it's again not meant literally, just as a long time.
Re: 113. 碩鼠 - Shuo Shu