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[personal profile] x_los posting in [community profile] dankodes
 * I found the best option for the weekly reminder emails, via Gmail. The external service options are more involved than our purposes require. Does anyone know anything about how to arrange an Apps Script? Basically all it has to do is tell ten people, on Saturdays, to come and get their juice/poems.

Until someone knows what to do there, I'll send out manual messages weekly. If you'd like to receive these and are not getting them, please let me know.

* If you haven't read it yet, chapter one, on tetrasyllabic shi poetry, in 
How to Read Chinese Poetry is hugely useful for the Book of Odes, imo. 

* Remember you can also look at 
How to Read Chinese Poetry in Context.

* IF YOU HAVE FRIENDS WHO MIGHT LIKE TO JOIN or have other ideas, please let me know on 
this post.

* Every week I search the poems' English results to see if I can find any scholarship or neat bits and pop the results in Resources. Here is this week's collection.

**NEXT BATCH JUNE 28.** 

ONLY 2 SHI JING WEEKS LEFT, THIS INCLUDED!   
Date: 2021-06-21 09:12 pm (UTC)

Re: 289. 小毖 - Xiao Bi

From: [personal profile] ann712
I don’t think it should be interpreted that he thinks the wasp is a wren. I read it that he doesn’t want to grasp the nettle (so to speak) which is the wasp thing.
Then he says that the challenges he faced seemed small ( wren) at first but then proved to be a large bird when it took off.
Date: 2021-06-21 09:14 pm (UTC)

Re: 290. 載芟 - Zai Shan

From: [personal profile] ann712
It really presents a golden age doesnt it,
Date: 2021-06-21 09:16 pm (UTC)

Re: 291. 良耜 - Liang Si

From: [personal profile] ann712
I think the smart weed may be used as a green manure. Hence decayed.
Date: 2021-06-27 09:55 am (UTC)

Re: 286. 閔予小子 - Min Yu Xiao Zi

douqi: (Default)
From: [personal profile] douqi
According to wikipedia, King Cheng of Zhou was pretty baby when he ascended the throne. The entry says he started ruling in his own right at 20, and he had a regent for 7 years before that.
Date: 2021-06-27 10:01 am (UTC)

Re: 287. 訪落 - Fang Luo

douqi: (Default)
From: [personal profile] douqi
Baike suggests that the bit translated as ascending/descending refers to promotions and demotions of officials.
Date: 2021-06-27 10:17 am (UTC)

Re: 291. 良耜 - Liang Si

douqi: (Default)
From: [personal profile] douqi
'Shares' is 耜 which is some sort of soil-tilling implement, supposedly invented by Farmer God/Emperor guy.

瞻 seems to me more like 'see/look/gawk' than 'visit'. Although Baike seems to gloss it as 'materially support'.

笠 is those bamboo hats.

Not sure about the 'smart-weed'. 以薅荼蓼 seems to just mean 'to clear away Weed Type A and Weed Type B'?

'Decayed' is 朽, so probably a literal translation.
Date: 2021-06-27 07:36 pm (UTC)

Re: 286. 閔予小子 - Min Yu Xiao Zi

superborb: (Default)
From: [personal profile] superborb
Baike:

Probably written for Zhou Cheng wang in the third year of his reign (after the three year mourning period) by Zhou gong, as Zhou Cheng wang would be too young to understand politics at this time.

The Father is Wu wang, the great-grandfather is Wen wang; the great kings are both Wu wang and Wen wang.

Date: 2021-06-27 07:41 pm (UTC)

Re: 287. 訪落 - Fang Luo

superborb: (Default)
From: [personal profile] superborb
It's mildly annoying that Baike is very inconsistent in their glosses -- like that's not in the gloss for the previous poem, which just says 上下,升降, while this one is the much more useful one of 提升和贬谪
Date: 2021-06-27 07:51 pm (UTC)

Re: 287. 訪落 - Fang Luo

superborb: (Default)
From: [personal profile] superborb
Baike points out that one of the problems with changing kings is that the feudal princes may not acknowledge the new king. Therefore the political situation is not as stable. There is also controversy over when this poem was written: either after Cheng wang becomes king or after Zhou gong's regency is over.
Date: 2021-06-27 08:02 pm (UTC)

Re: 288. 敬之 - Jing Zhi

superborb: (Default)
From: [personal profile] superborb
Baike says the poems 286-289 are regarded as a group-- 286 as Cheng wang has first ascended, 289 after Zhou gong returned to politics, so this should take place between the two. Cheng wang has been in power with the help of Zhou gong for a bit, and is in the transition from impulsive to mature. Baike points out that while the poems would not have been pre-planned to come as a set, it must have been arranged deliberately like so in this collection.
Date: 2021-06-27 08:32 pm (UTC)

Re: 289. 小毖 - Xiao Bi

superborb: (Default)
From: [personal profile] superborb
Baike:

I cannot quite parse the gloss for 'wasp': a tiny grass bee; there is disagreement about the explanation, some say it has the meaning of shi [to make; to cause]?????

The 'sting' is glossed as a loan character for 'imperial orders', hardworking/industrious

The wren (a small bird) -> large bird metaphor is for Wu Geng, who started out weak but colluded with Guanshu and Caishu to rebel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebellion_of_the_Three_Guards)

The bitter experiences uses a bitter plant to carry the meaning; it was commonly used by the ancients as a metaphor for hardships.

So this is now Zhou Cheng wang as a mature adult, having passed the rebellion.
Date: 2021-06-27 08:49 pm (UTC)

Re: 291. 良耜 - Liang Si

superborb: (Default)
From: [personal profile] superborb
蓼 is smartweed. I guess Legge just drops the other weed type
Date: 2021-06-27 08:53 pm (UTC)

Re: 292. 絲衣 - Si Yi

superborb: (Default)
From: [personal profile] superborb
Baike glosses the 'clear and bright' as spotlessly white and bright

Yep sacrifice animals

Baike has... so many words about rituals @.@
Date: 2021-06-27 09:04 pm (UTC)

Re: 293. 酌 - Zhuo

superborb: (Default)
From: [personal profile] superborb
Baike's vernacular tl of that line is taking some huge liberties "commanding soldiers in a campaign to the east to extinguish the Yin Shang dynasty"

I guess a more literal tl, relying on Baike's gloss is like, "commanding to attack and seize in the darkness [of the end of a lunar month]"
Date: 2021-06-27 09:06 pm (UTC)

Re: 293. 酌 - Zhuo

superborb: (Default)
From: [personal profile] superborb
Baike says this is about Zhou Wu wang's victory over the Yin Shang (previous dynasty), possibly by Zhou gong after he died. One of the Da Wu poems.
Date: 2021-06-27 09:20 pm (UTC)

Re: 294. 桓 - Huan

superborb: (Default)
From: [personal profile] superborb
Legge has chosen a diff interpretation than the Baike gloss-- instead of 'room' (literal modern meaning), Baike glosses as to supervise / control.

But that line basically means he replaced the Shang.
Date: 2021-06-27 09:30 pm (UTC)

Re: 295. 賚 - Lai

superborb: (Default)
From: [personal profile] superborb
Baike says that this is Wu wang warning the feudal princes who are under his rule at the end of the Da Wu performance (i.e. after he succeeds in conquering the Shang)

Settlement in the sense of stability / settling the country I think??

Appointment in the sense of the mandate of heaven now upon the Zhou
Date: 2021-06-27 09:39 pm (UTC)

Re: 296. 般 - Ban

superborb: (Default)
From: [personal profile] superborb
Baike's description makes it seem more like-- the mountains and rivers show the vastness of the Zhou.

Baike's vernacular tl for the last line is "May the fate of Zhou last forever". From the gloss it might be as a more literal tl, "bear/support Zhou's fate"

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