Shi Jing, The Book of Odes: Lessons from the States, Odes Of Chen

[x_los]

* I found the best option for the weekly reminder emails, via Gmail. The external service options are more involved than our purposes require. Does anyone know anything about how to arrange an Apps Script? Basically all it has to do is tell ten people, on Saturdays, to come and get their juice/poems.

Until someone knows what to do there, I'll send out manual messages weekly. If you'd like to receive these and are not getting them, please let me know.

* If you haven't read it yet, chapter one, on tetrasyllabic shi poetry, in How to Read Chinese Poetry is hugely useful for the Book of Odes, imo.

* IF YOU HAVE FRIENDS WHO MIGHT LIKE TO JOIN or have other ideas, please let me know on this post.

* Every week I search the poems' English results to see if I can find any scholarship or neat bits and pop the results in Resources. Here is this week's collection.

**NEXT BATCH MARCH 8.**

Comments

136. 宛丘 - Wan Qiu

[x_los]

子之湯兮、宛丘之上兮。
洵有情兮、而無望兮。

How gay and dissipated you are,
There on the top of Wanqiu!
You are full of kindly affection indeed,
But you have nothing to make you looked up to!

坎其擊鼓、宛丘之下。
無冬無夏、值其鷺羽。

How your blows on the drum resound,
At the foot of Wanqiu!
Be it winter, be it summer,
You are holding your egret's feather!

坎其擊缶、宛丘之道。
無冬無夏、值其鷺翿。

How you beat your earthen vessel,
On the way to Wanqiu!
Be it winter, be it summer,
You are holding your egret-fan!

Re: 136. 宛丘 - Wan Qiu

[x_los]

So, something of a partier who makes a good show of him or herself, but who doesn't do anything to cultivate people's deeper or more lasting respect?

137. 東門之枌 - Dong Men Zhi Fen

[x_los]

東門之枌、宛丘之栩。
子仲之子、婆娑其下。

[There are] the white elms at the east gate.
And the oaks on Wanqiu;
The daughter of Zizhong,
Dances about under them.

穀旦于差、南方之原。
不績其麻、市也婆娑。

A good morning having been chosen,
For the plain in the South,
She leaves twisting her hemp,
And dances to it through the market-place.

穀旦于逝、越以鬷邁。
視爾如荍、貽我握椒。

The morning being good for excursion,
They all proceed together.
'I look on you as the flower of the thorny mallows;
You give me a stalk of the pepper plant.

Re: 137. 東門之枌 - Dong Men Zhi Fen

[x_los]

Going on a date, I guess.

Re: 137. 東門之枌 - Dong Men Zhi Fen

[forestofglory]

This pre-contact with the Americas, so the pepper here would be probably black or Sichuan pepper.

Re: 137. 東門之枌 - Dong Men Zhi Fen

[superborb]

I think from reading Baike that this might be thought to show cultural customs of the early spring season, where men and women worship the gods of marriage/reproduction, and these types of celebrations/rituals eventually become the fixed festivals we know today.

138. 衡門 - Heng Men

[x_los]

衡門之下、可以棲遲。
泌之洋洋、可以樂飢。

Beneath my door made of cross pieces of wood,
I can rest at my leisure;
By the wimpling stream from my fountain,
I can joy amid my hunger.

豈其食魚、必河之魴。
豈其取妻、必齊之姜。

Why, in eating fish;
Must we have bream from the He?
Why, in taking a wife,
Must we have a Jiang of Qi?

豈其食魚、必河之鯉。
豈其取妻、必宋之子。

Why, in eating fish;
Must we have carp from the He?
Why, in taking a wife,
Must we have a Zi of Song?

Re: 138. 衡門 - Heng Men

[x_los]

You could have a simple relationship with someone in humble circumstances and enjoy domestic felicity, you don't need these very socially advantageous matches, 'the best of the best'?

Re: 138. 衡門 - Heng Men

[superborb]

Baike: The xing is unusually not at the beginning of the poem, but before the discussion.

The "cross pieces of wood" means the house is simple/crude. Normally 衡 means to weigh/measure, but baike says this is 横 (homonym) which means horizontal. One source says it means the city gates

"my fountain": this may be the name of a spring in Chen country, but could just be a general name instead of a specific reference.

"hunger": often in the Shijing, the word hunger means sexual desire. One source says in ancient times, sexual desire was often called hunger, as a set idiom. [A cross cultural idiom if so lol]

The He is the Yellow River

The interpretation Baike spends the most time explicating is indeed that of a love poem, basically saying that a humble life is a joy. [The following I'm not sure if I'm reading 100% correctly since it's very dense] It also says some historical interpretations are to help/encourage the monarch; a hermit happy by themself; men and women having meetings for sex.

139. 東門之池 - Dong Men Zhi Chi

[x_los]

東門之池、可以漚麻。
彼美淑姬、可與晤歌。

The moat at the east gate,
Is fit to steep hemp in.
That beautiful, virtuous, lady,
Can respond to you in songs.

東門之池、可以漚紵。
彼美淑姬、可與晤語。

The moat at the east gate,
Is fit to steep the boehmeria in.
That beautiful, virtuous, lady,
Can respond to you in discourse.

東門之池、可以漚菅。
彼美淑姬、可與晤言。

The moat at the east gate,
Is fit to steep the rope-rush in.
That beautiful, virtuous lady,
Can respond to you in conversation.

Re: 139. 東門之池 - Dong Men Zhi Chi

[x_los]

To steep these useful plants, the moat water would have to be clear and wholesome. It's adapted to many good purposes; so too is this smart and moral lady.

Re: 139. 東門之池 - Dong Men Zhi Chi

[superborb]

Baike:

"moat": Baike's gloss says moat, but one source says pond

"virtuous": could mean virtuous/beautiful, one source says it means the seniority among siblings is third

"lady": a surname, one source says a nice sounding moniker for a woman

"songs": specifically referring to antiphonal songs

"boehmeria": also ramie, used to make ropes

"rope-rush": a plant like reeds, used to make straw shoes after soaked

The Mao commentary on this is, once again, about satirizing the monarch. Is any poem not? But Baike spends most time interpreting it as a love poem, where they are hard at work and they're talking and singing.

The poem has the very common pattern of the second+third stanza basically being repetitions, as in traditional folk songs.

140. 東門之楊 - Dong Men Zhi Yang

[x_los]

東門之楊、其葉牂牂。
昏以為期、明星煌煌。

On the willows at the east gate,
The leaves are very luxuriant.
The evening was the time agreed on,
And the morning star is shining bright.

東門之楊、其葉肺肺。
昏以為期、明星晢晢。

On the willows at the east gate,
The leaves are dense.
The evening was the time agreed on,
And the morning star is shining bright.

Re: 140. 東門之楊 - Dong Men Zhi Yang

[x_los]

Time agreed on for what? Romance, or?

Re: 140. 東門之楊 - Dong Men Zhi Yang

[superborb]

This poem sounds very nice when said aloud, because of lots of repeated words

Baike: this poem uses the "fu" technique to describe these scenes instead of "xing". (What is the difference??)

141. 墓門 - Mu Men

[x_los]

墓門有棘、斧以斯之。
夫也不良、國人知之。
知而不已、誰昔然矣。

At the gate to the tombs there are jujube trees; -
They should be cut away with an axe.
That man is not good,
And the people of the State know it.
They know it, but he does not give over; -
Long time has it been thus with him.

墓門有梅、有鴞萃止。
夫也不良、歌以訊之。
訊予不顧、顛倒思予。

At the gate to the tombs there are plum trees;
And there are owls collecting on them.
That man is not good,
And I sing [this song] to admonish him.
I admonish him, but he will not regard me; -
When he is overthrown, he will think of me.

Re: 141. 墓門 - Mu Men

[x_los]

oh my god I? love this poem? So the trees are clogging up the way to the tomb because this guy doesn't take care of things and do fit rituals. Common people think he isn't shit, but he doesn't change or relinquish power. The poet criticises him, but he doesn't care--he'll care when he's IN HELL, THOUGH.

Re: 141. 墓門 - Mu Men

[superborb]

Baike: "tombs": baike's gloss says tombs, but one source says Chen country's city gates [lol]

"plum trees": one source said this was once "thorn" but there was a mis-copy bc the characters look similar

"owl": to the ancients, owls were evil birds

According to Mao's commentary, this was written about Chen Tuo, son of Chen Wen gong during the Spring and Autumn period. (This guy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chen_Tuo) However, during the Song dynasty, this interpretation became challenged.

142. 防有鵲巢 - Fang You Que Chao

[x_los]

防有鵲巢、邛有旨苕。
誰侜予美、心焉忉忉。

On the embankment are magpies' nests;
On the height grows the beautiful pea.
Who has been imposing on the object of my admiration?
- My heart is full of sorrow.

中唐有甓、邛有旨鷊。
誰侜予美、心焉惕惕。

The middle path of the temple is covered with its tiles;
On the height is the beautiful medallion plant.
Who has been imposing on the object of my admiration?
- My heart is full of trouble.

Re: 142. 防有鵲巢 - Fang You Que Chao

[x_los]

A contrast of low and high things, meant to recall the contrast between the person harassing your girlfriend and your wonderful girlfriend?

Re: 142. 防有鵲巢 - Fang You Que Chao

[superborb]

Baike:

"embankment": dam, dike. One source says embankment; one source says a "fang", an evergreen tree that gives a red dye.

"height": mound, hill

"pea": a type of creeper / climbing plant, grows in low, wet places. Several plants are then proposed to be what the plant is.

"the middle path of the temple": in the ancient halls, the main corridor in the courtyard

"tiles": baike glosses this as tiles, and then one source says DUCKS [i'm dying]

So again, it's the contrast of "things that don't belong here": magpies on dams, water plants on hills, roof tiles on courtyards.

Mao's commentary says this is Xuan gong believing in slander, and Ju Zi worried about it. Zhu Xi disagrees and says it's a love poem and modern scholars mostly agree it's a poem for lovers who are worried about separation and losing their love.

143. 月出 - Yue Chu

[x_los]

月出皎兮、佼人僚兮。
舒窈糾兮、勞心悄兮。

The moon comes forth in her brightness;
How lovely is that beautiful lady!
O to have my deep longings for her relieved!
How anxious is my toiled heart!

月出皓兮、佼人懰兮。
舒懮受兮、勞心慅兮。

The moon comes forth in her splendour;
How attractive is that beautiful lady!
O to have my anxieties about her relieved!
How agitated is my toiled heart!

月出照兮、佼人燎兮。
舒夭紹兮、勞心慘兮。

The moon comes forth and shines;
How brilliant is that beautiful lady!
O to have the chains of my mind relaxed!
How miserable is my toiled heart!

Re: 143. 月出 - Yue Chu

[x_los]

This has BETTER not secretly be about ministers becoming hermits because I have already written it into a fanfic.

144. 株林 - Zhu Lin

[x_los]

胡為乎株林、從夏南。
匪適株林、從夏南。

What does he in Zhulin?
He is going after Xianan.
He is not going to Zhulin;
He is going after Xianan.

駕我乘馬、說于株野。
乘我乘駒、朝食于株。

'Yoke for me my team of horses;
I will rest in the country about Zhu.
I will drive my team of colts,
And breakfast at Zhu.'

Re: 144. 株林 - Zhu Lin

[x_los]

This is inevitably about some famous ancient personal drama, and on Sunday Helena will tell me what it is.

145. 澤陂 - Ze Po

[x_los]

彼澤之陂、有蒲與荷。
有美一人、傷如之何。
寤寐無為、涕泗滂沱。

By the shores of that marsh,
There are rushes and lotus plants.
There is the beautiful lady; -
I am tortured for her, but what avails it?
Waking or sleeping, I do nothing;
From my eyes and nose the water streams.

彼澤之陂、有蒲與蕑。
有美一人、碩大且卷。
寤寐無為、中心悁悁。

By the shores of that marsh,
There are rushes and the valerian.
There is the beautiful lady;
Tall and large, and elegant.
Waking or sleeping, I do nothing;
My inmost heart is full of grief.

彼澤之陂、有蒲菡萏。
有美一人、碩大且儼。
寤寐無為、輾轉伏枕。

By the shores of that marsh,
There are rushes and lotus flowers.
There is the beautiful lady;
Tall and large, and majestic.
Waking or sleeping, I do nothing;
On my side, on my back, with my face on the pillow, I lie.

Re: 145. 澤陂 - Ze Po

[x_los]

How's the xing connecting up with the rest of the poem?