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 * I found the best option for the weekly reminder emails, via Gmail. The external service options are more involved than our purposes require. Does anyone know anything about how to arrange an Apps Script? Basically all it has to do is tell ten people, on Saturdays, to come and get their juice/poems.

Until someone knows what to do there, I'll send out manual messages weekly. If you'd like to receive these and are not getting them, please let me know.

* If you haven't read it yet, chapter one, on tetrasyllabic shi poetry, in 
How to Read Chinese Poetry is hugely useful for the Book of Odes, imo. 

* Remember you can also look at 
How to Read Chinese Poetry in Context.

* IF YOU HAVE FRIENDS WHO MIGHT LIKE TO JOIN or have other ideas, please let me know on 
this post.

* Every week I search the poems' English results to see if I can find any scholarship or neat bits and pop the results in Resources. Here is this week's collection.

**NEXT BATCH MAY 31.** 
Date: 2021-05-30 08:20 pm (UTC)

Re: 245. 生民 - Sheng Min

superborb: (Default)
From: [personal profile] superborb
For context, this is about the birth of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hou_Ji who was claimed as the ancestor of the Zhou dynasty.

Baike has some interesting discussion about the various myths around Houji. One being the idea of testing babies by abandoning them (stanza 3) as a prototypical hero origin story.

Baike also mentions that since alcohol was not mentioned as a product of the grain, it may not have been invented during the time when Houji lived. (This seems wrong to me... surely alcohol is one of the earliest things humans invent, even before grains are domesticated??)
Edited Date: 2021-05-30 08:40 pm (UTC)
Date: 2021-05-30 09:00 pm (UTC)

Re: 246. 行葦 - Xing Wei

superborb: (Default)
From: [personal profile] superborb
Baike:

The stools given to some would generally be used by the elderly. It is a small wooden table with short feet.

The etiquette during Zhou dynasty was for the host to wash the cup, then pour wine for the guest, then the guest returns the favor. After drinking in one shot, the cup is placed on the table.

Apparently this poem was quite controversial wrt its theme and background.
Date: 2021-05-30 09:22 pm (UTC)

Re: 247. 既醉 - Ji Jui

superborb: (Default)
From: [personal profile] superborb
Yeah, Baike says in the gloss for "The personator of your ancestors", in ancient times, during sacrifices, someone would dress as the ancestor to receive the sacrifice. This would be called 'shi' [dictionary: person representing the dead during funeral; corpse]; if the ancestor was a prince, it would be called 'gong shi'.

I am unsure where Legge gets heroic or intelligence from?? Not in the original text or mentioned in the Baike gloss AFAICT.
Date: 2021-05-30 09:37 pm (UTC)

Re: 248. 鳧鷖 - Fu Yi

superborb: (Default)
From: [personal profile] superborb
The word used is directly translated to widgeon, which is a kind of bird, though Baike glosses it as a kind of gull instead?

IDK Why Legge translates it as on the King, from the Baike vernacular it is like the birds are in the middle of a river?

The wine is strained to remove the sediment, so it has a meaning of 'clear'.

Do not know why Legge says sliced, it just says dried meat... I guess dried meat is usually sliced?

Baike claims the places the birds land is just a sound change without deep meaning.

Date: 2021-05-30 09:59 pm (UTC)

Re: 249. 假樂 - Jia Le

superborb: (Default)
From: [personal profile] superborb
Baike:

Historical scholars had several thoughts on who the king in question was, but modern scholars think it's about Zhou Xuan wang. It's about the hope and expectations of reviving the dynasty laid upon a young monarch, when there were many internal and external troubles. E.g. to follow the regulations and listen to ministers, which is what led to the previous kings almost destroying Zhou.

However, in the past, many scholars thought this was just a poem full of flattery.
Date: 2021-05-30 10:12 pm (UTC)

Re: 250. 公劉 - Gong Liu

superborb: (Default)
From: [personal profile] superborb
There does not appear to be a Baike article about this poem, but yao is another word for jade.

However, the article for Gong Liu (historical person) says that this poem was about him. He led a historical migration after the decline of the Xia dynasty, when the population was suffering attacks from nomads and the agricultural production of the plain decreased, and established the country of Bin. He is one of the ancestors of clan which will later establish the Zhou dynasty.
Date: 2021-05-30 10:33 pm (UTC)

Re: 251. 泂酌 - Jiong Zhuo

superborb: (Default)
From: [personal profile] superborb
Perhaps a typo, Baike's gloss is steam.

Baike's gloss on the vase is: ancient drinking vessel / wine cup, shaped like a large pot.

The most interesting interpretation, by Chen Zizhan, is that slaves are forced to draw water from afar, so this is irony/satire by slave singers. But most of the other interpretations are some kind of praise for the king, that if the king is moral and honest, the people will support him.
Date: 2021-05-30 10:50 pm (UTC)

Re: 252. 卷阿 - Juan A

superborb: (Default)
From: [personal profile] superborb
Baike:

The vernacular translation of 'You have received the appointment long-acknowledged' seemed more like, you've received the Mandate of Heaven for a long time, but I could be misunderstanding it.

'jade mace: gui is an ancient ritual object made of jade, in the shape of a long strip with the top end pointed. zhang is also an ancient ritual object made of jade, in the shape of a long strip with the top end at an acute angle.

The dryandras are for ~atmosphere~ apparently. But the phoenix is being compared to the king of Zhou and the birds the virtuous officials.
Date: 2021-05-30 11:00 pm (UTC)

Re: 253. 民勞 - Min Lu

superborb: (Default)
From: [personal profile] superborb
Baike's gloss on the center of the kingdom is the area directly ruled by the Zhou dynasty, while the four quarters are vassal states.

Baike's vernacular translation on those lines:
爱护京城老百姓,安抚诸侯定四方。
Cherish the ordinary people of the capital, pacify the feudal princes in all directions

Baike's gloss on the 'hold you as jade' is that it sounds like 'love thou', to treasure as if treasuring jade.
Baike's vernacular translation on those lines:
衷心爱戴您君王,大力劝谏为帮助。
Wholeheartedly love and respect your king, strongly admonish for help.
Date: 2021-05-30 11:04 pm (UTC)

Re: 253. 民勞 - Min Lu

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From: [personal profile] superborb
Baike points out that this kind of structure, where the most of the sentences in the stanzas are the same, is a common form in the Guofeng poems, but is somewhat unusual in the Daya ones, which mostly rely on Fu.

Baike also says that by complaining about the villains, it is a criticism of the king, since you can't denounce the king directly, but villains can only do great evil when the king is incompetent.
Date: 2021-05-30 11:37 pm (UTC)

Re: 254. 板 - Ban

superborb: (Default)
From: [personal profile] superborb
Baike:

What's wrong with the lines ending in '[Thus] your plans do not reach far'? It's like saying they don't listen to sages, they are arbitrary and indulgent. They don't speak in good faith and instead mislead, and they're not far sighted / don't have vision.

The gloss on the 'grass and firewood-gatherers' is woodcutters, which is... not very useful... I wonder, given one of the secondary definitions is (used in self-deprecation) boor, rustic, it means something like consulting the ordinary people? But Baike doesn't discuss it further

The personators of the dead I mentioned earlier -- it's people dressed as the dead (Baike here says 'spirit body') during sacrifices. In both the gloss and its vernacular translation, Baike says that the personator cannot speak or complain.

The flute stanza is showing how the narrator wants the king to be as harmonious as the stuff he discusses, and the wall stanza is comparing the people to the wall and reminding the king to not destroy the wall and shame himself.
Edited Date: 2021-05-31 12:21 am (UTC)

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